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Once learned the GUI actions are impossible to forget. Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author'

Once learned the GUI actions are impossible to forget. Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author's list. The reason is simple: the brain can associate the GUI actions to many concepts from the real world. CLI concepts exist on computers and nowhere else. That knowledge is too abstract and too expensive to be kept unused in our brain's cache non-stop.

kodah 5y ago
That seems like a poor rule. As a dev and systems engineer those shortcuts are codified in my head, but I've noticed other devs won't even know simple ones. I've taken months off and not forgotten them. GUIs change, get deprecated, can vary by medium etc... so the same can be said for them. Generally, whether I'm making a CLI or a GUI, I establish contracts for display, input, and output. This at least allows for some albeit veritable consistency.
- macando 5y ago
  I struggle with memorizing CLI commands' parameters and special characters. This happens with git commands too and I use them all the time. Something like CLI autocomplete would be awesome.
  - HKH2 5y ago
    Fish can autocomplete Git commands; no configuration is necessary. It generally has friendy defaults unlike Bash.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - kodah 5y ago
    Agreed, these are great assets for learning. Personally, I use zsh combined with HyperJS and starship.rs. Its been a very enjoyable experience.
userbinator 5y ago
Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author's list. As someone who uses both GUI and CLI, and has taken month-long travels where I don't use a computer at all, I don't think this is true, at least for me. CLI is like a language; once you've really learned, it takes a long time to forget.
- macando 5y ago
  Yeah, like a language. However if I ommit a commmmma or mispel or abbreviate smth you'll still be able to understand me. A computer on the other hand...
  - hnjst 5y ago
    Thankfully while computers are indeed picky about typos, they also gladly guess, complete and validate what you're trying to tell them if you ask politely (a.k.a. banging repeatedly on the tab key).
    - oblio 5y ago
      If someone was nice enough to provide that autocompletion for your favorite commands, because Unix commands don't have any kind of introspection.
      - hnjst 5y ago
        Your shell probably does though, at least for files and commands. Some like ZSH even have completions for common commands readily available, accept external completion plugins and let you write your own as a last resort.
  - opan 5y ago
    Very easy to click the wrong thing in a GUI, It can be rather punishing. Keep in mind the buttons are like preconfigured CLI commands, so things can be more catastrophic.
gpderetta 5y ago
It used to be the case. These days I find that online GUIs (but not only) change every few days completely messing up any muscle memory.
- macando 5y ago
  Operating systems are fairly stable and consistent wrt to UI when it comes to stuff like from the author's list.
HKH2 5y ago
Terminals have history. Or if you are working locally, just put the command in a script and name it something more memorable. GUI layouts get moved around so you have to relearn where options are. In some cases, options get removed entirely in the name of 'user friendliness', whereas nobody's going to do that with CLI options. I used to think I knew the Firefox layout (I've used it for more than 15 years), but now it takes longer to find things than what it used to.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
  History is really important here: I have like 10k lines in my shell history file of all the tasks I do on a regular (and not so regular) basis all of them are an Escape-? away (vim bindings in my shell).
hnjst 5y ago
That's supposing that said GUI are stable enough relatively to how often you use them. Beside that, it still entails that you've to "wire your brain" so that it integrate the twisted specific ways they map on "the real world", with no guarantee that they won't change for external reasons, nor that there will be any sort of consistency across applications.
subsection1h 5y ago
> Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author's list. Sweet Jesus, the GUI lovers in this discussion really need to learn how to use computers. I have a text file that includes several thousand commands that I have run during the past 20+ years. In one column there are the commands with placeholders, and in the other column there are descriptions of the commands. I have a shell function that provides this text file as input to fzf, and the shell function is bound to a key. I press the key, type a few words to find the command I want to run, press enter, and then the command is placed in the command prompt without the description. I can select any one of several thousand commands in 2-3 seconds because I type 120+ words per minute.
- BeetleB 5y ago
  Is this meant for humor? Don't get me wrong. I personally am a command line person too and I like your setup. However, contrast: > Right click and select menu option with: > In one column there are the commands with placeholders, and in the other column there are descriptions of the commands. I have a shell function that provides this text file as input to fzf, and the shell function is bound to a key. I press the key, type a few words to find the command I want to run, press enter, and then the command is placed in the command prompt without the description.
- pie420 5y ago
  Is this satire? You're unironically arguing in favor of something that needs 20 years of Institutional knowledge to be compiled into a text file. When happens when you lose that file? What happens when you use a similar computer without that file. You are so incredibly out of touch with regular human beings.
- mdoms 5y ago
  > Sweet Jesus, the GUI lovers in this discussion really need to learn how to use computers Do you have any idea how obnoxious this comment is? I would love to have a discussion with you when you're 38 years old. I think you'll be amazed at how even your big impressive brain degrades, especially in memory.
easytiger 5y ago
Your brain, is not everyone's brain. FYI
ernesth 5y ago
There's a GUI I need to use twice a year. It contains confusing icons and processes that take multiple clicks with no way to come back. I used to do variations of the same mistakes every time until I wrote the steps in a text file (in other words I translated the graphical actions into text to remember them)
fouric 5y ago
I think that this isn't always the case. Some peoples' brains (such as mine, I believe) are more wired to be symbolic. I suspect that, for these people, using a textual-command-oriented CLI interface is going to be noticeably easier/more intuitive than those whose brains are wired to be more visual/kinesthetic/whatever else there might be. I don't think that it's very strongly weighted towards "transferability toward other real-world concepts". The modern GUI interface doesn't seem to share many characteristics with non-computer parts of the real world.

kodah 5y ago

That seems like a poor rule. As a dev and systems engineer those shortcuts are codified in my head, but I've noticed other devs won't even know simple ones. I've taken months off and not forgotten them. GUIs change, get deprecated, can vary by medium etc... so the same can be said for them. Generally, whether I'm making a CLI or a GUI, I establish contracts for display, input, and output. This at least allows for some albeit veritable consistency.

macando 5y ago
I struggle with memorizing CLI commands' parameters and special characters. This happens with git commands too and I use them all the time. Something like CLI autocomplete would be awesome.
- HKH2 5y ago
  Fish can autocomplete Git commands; no configuration is necessary. It generally has friendy defaults unlike Bash.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- kodah 5y ago
  Agreed, these are great assets for learning. Personally, I use zsh combined with HyperJS and starship.rs. Its been a very enjoyable experience.

userbinator 5y ago

Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author's list. As someone who uses both GUI and CLI, and has taken month-long travels where I don't use a computer at all, I don't think this is true, at least for me. CLI is like a language; once you've really learned, it takes a long time to forget.

macando 5y ago
Yeah, like a language. However if I ommit a commmmma or mispel or abbreviate smth you'll still be able to understand me. A computer on the other hand...
- hnjst 5y ago
  Thankfully while computers are indeed picky about typos, they also gladly guess, complete and validate what you're trying to tell them if you ask politely (a.k.a. banging repeatedly on the tab key).
  - oblio 5y ago
    If someone was nice enough to provide that autocompletion for your favorite commands, because Unix commands don't have any kind of introspection.
    - hnjst 5y ago
      Your shell probably does though, at least for files and commands. Some like ZSH even have completions for common commands readily available, accept external completion plugins and let you write your own as a last resort.
- opan 5y ago
  Very easy to click the wrong thing in a GUI, It can be rather punishing. Keep in mind the buttons are like preconfigured CLI commands, so things can be more catastrophic.

gpderetta 5y ago

It used to be the case. These days I find that online GUIs (but not only) change every few days completely messing up any muscle memory.

macando 5y ago
Operating systems are fairly stable and consistent wrt to UI when it comes to stuff like from the author's list.

HKH2 5y ago

Terminals have history. Or if you are working locally, just put the command in a script and name it something more memorable. GUI layouts get moved around so you have to relearn where options are. In some cases, options get removed entirely in the name of 'user friendliness', whereas nobody's going to do that with CLI options. I used to think I knew the Firefox layout (I've used it for more than 15 years), but now it takes longer to find things than what it used to.

fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
History is really important here: I have like 10k lines in my shell history file of all the tasks I do on a regular (and not so regular) basis all of them are an Escape-? away (vim bindings in my shell).

hnjst 5y ago

That's supposing that said GUI are stable enough relatively to how often you use them. Beside that, it still entails that you've to "wire your brain" so that it integrate the twisted specific ways they map on "the real world", with no guarantee that they won't change for external reasons, nor that there will be any sort of consistency across applications.

subsection1h 5y ago

> Being away from the computer for two weeks will make you forget 80% of the CLI commands from the author's list. Sweet Jesus, the GUI lovers in this discussion really need to learn how to use computers. I have a text file that includes several thousand commands that I have run during the past 20+ years. In one column there are the commands with placeholders, and in the other column there are descriptions of the commands. I have a shell function that provides this text file as input to fzf, and the shell function is bound to a key. I press the key, type a few words to find the command I want to run, press enter, and then the command is placed in the command prompt without the description. I can select any one of several thousand commands in 2-3 seconds because I type 120+ words per minute.

BeetleB 5y ago
Is this meant for humor? Don't get me wrong. I personally am a command line person too and I like your setup. However, contrast: > Right click and select menu option with: > In one column there are the commands with placeholders, and in the other column there are descriptions of the commands. I have a shell function that provides this text file as input to fzf, and the shell function is bound to a key. I press the key, type a few words to find the command I want to run, press enter, and then the command is placed in the command prompt without the description.
pie420 5y ago
Is this satire? You're unironically arguing in favor of something that needs 20 years of Institutional knowledge to be compiled into a text file. When happens when you lose that file? What happens when you use a similar computer without that file. You are so incredibly out of touch with regular human beings.
mdoms 5y ago
> Sweet Jesus, the GUI lovers in this discussion really need to learn how to use computers Do you have any idea how obnoxious this comment is? I would love to have a discussion with you when you're 38 years old. I think you'll be amazed at how even your big impressive brain degrades, especially in memory.

easytiger 5y ago

Your brain, is not everyone's brain. FYI

ernesth 5y ago

There's a GUI I need to use twice a year. It contains confusing icons and processes that take multiple clicks with no way to come back. I used to do variations of the same mistakes every time until I wrote the steps in a text file (in other words I translated the graphical actions into text to remember them)

fouric 5y ago

I think that this isn't always the case. Some peoples' brains (such as mine, I believe) are more wired to be symbolic. I suspect that, for these people, using a textual-command-oriented CLI interface is going to be noticeably easier/more intuitive than those whose brains are wired to be more visual/kinesthetic/whatever else there might be. I don't think that it's very strongly weighted towards "transferability toward other real-world concepts". The modern GUI interface doesn't seem to share many characteristics with non-computer parts of the real world.