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Downloaded it and installed it, and you seriously need to have some kind of onboarding for this kind of tool. I'm an extremely technical person and I have no i

by dvt 6y ago

Downloaded it and installed it, and you seriously need to have some kind of onboarding for this kind of tool. I'm an extremely technical person and I have no idea what I'm looking at. I can create cells that have code in them? How do they connect? What's the output, what's the input? Can I at least see an example of a jig file? Is this vanilla Javascript? It looks like it might be, but the `viewof` keyword is confusing.

zelon88 6y ago
It is a reporting and graphing tool for data. Like Synergy SmartViews or Crystal Reports but instead of a Visual editor for crafting queries this uses code instead.
- dvt 6y ago
  > It is a reporting and graphing tool for data... It doesn't really seem like what you're describing once you run it. For one, I can make all kinds of widgets and import all kinds of code (which is confusing in its own right). But more importantly, I can't export or publish my workspace in any meaningful way.
  - zelon88 6y ago
    I didn't test the software, I just read through the marketing materials. Just took another look and I'm more confident than before that what I described is eventually what this intends to be. From the website it claims that these features are coming soon.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
d--b 6y ago
Noted. I think that’s likely the first thing to do. ie. that when a person’s interested enough to download the tool, they actually get to understand the basics of what it does... Sorry for wasting your time. In a nutshell: - cells are code blocks that form a directed acyclic graph (like cells in Excel) - cells can have a name (v=10) that can referenced in other cells (w=10*v) - the whole thing is not exactly javascript, the viewof keyword represents the “html element of the cell”. This needs more than a comment on HN...
- elcano 6y ago
  I would say that you have to define your audience. You have 4 possible level of users. There are people in the middle, of course, but these are your big groups: 1. IT/programmers (like you) 2. Advanced analysts (that are not afraid of Excel formulas, but barely scratch macros) 3. The report clickers (their concept of running a report is clicking on an icon and refreshing; if anything fails they run in panic) 4. The laid back Powerpoint requesters (CEOs that request other people to run the report for them, capture a screenshot and paste it in Powerpoint for the meeting). Users in group #4 are allergic to anything with appearance of code in the same room that they cohabitate. Users in group #3 will also get panic attacks by getting code mixed with their visualizations. Users in group #2 will tolerate it, but will fear how their reputation would be affected if anybody see them coding. My message hear here is similar to what you have received so far. You need to pivot how you market this solution.
  - d--b 6y ago
    Right. This “CEO” story was a test I made yesterday. From a blander “build internal reports fast” kind of message. It clearly produces stronger reactions. In smaller organizations, CTOs often are of type 1, so I am not exactly certain that the message wouldn’t land. Though I agree it is a weird approach.
- dvt 6y ago
  > Sorry for wasting your time. Not at all, this is what testing out new products is all about! I think you may have something here, but it's hard to figure out exactly what. Don't get me wrong, I think marketing and splash copy is important (a lot of comments are about your website), but I would personally focus first and foremost on the value proposition of your product. > - the whole thing is not exactly javascript, the viewof keyword represents the “html element of the cell”. This needs more than a comment on HN... Gotcha, I was also trying to label a graph's axes based on textlabels (two different cells), but I couldn't figure out how. Some docs, at least specifying what kind of object a graph or a table is expecting would be very helpful. Also, it's kind of odd that md`hello ${text1}` works, whereas I was expecting it to be md`hello ${text1.value}`. The reactivity is awesome though!

by dvt 6y ago

zelon88 6y ago

It is a reporting and graphing tool for data. Like Synergy SmartViews or Crystal Reports but instead of a Visual editor for crafting queries this uses code instead.

dvt 6y ago
> It is a reporting and graphing tool for data... It doesn't really seem like what you're describing once you run it. For one, I can make all kinds of widgets and import all kinds of code (which is confusing in its own right). But more importantly, I can't export or publish my workspace in any meaningful way.
- zelon88 6y ago
  I didn't test the software, I just read through the marketing materials. Just took another look and I'm more confident than before that what I described is eventually what this intends to be. From the website it claims that these features are coming soon.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

d--b 6y ago

Noted. I think that’s likely the first thing to do. ie. that when a person’s interested enough to download the tool, they actually get to understand the basics of what it does... Sorry for wasting your time. In a nutshell: - cells are code blocks that form a directed acyclic graph (like cells in Excel) - cells can have a name (v=10) that can referenced in other cells (w=10*v) - the whole thing is not exactly javascript, the viewof keyword represents the “html element of the cell”. This needs more than a comment on HN...

elcano 6y ago
I would say that you have to define your audience. You have 4 possible level of users. There are people in the middle, of course, but these are your big groups: 1. IT/programmers (like you) 2. Advanced analysts (that are not afraid of Excel formulas, but barely scratch macros) 3. The report clickers (their concept of running a report is clicking on an icon and refreshing; if anything fails they run in panic) 4. The laid back Powerpoint requesters (CEOs that request other people to run the report for them, capture a screenshot and paste it in Powerpoint for the meeting). Users in group #4 are allergic to anything with appearance of code in the same room that they cohabitate. Users in group #3 will also get panic attacks by getting code mixed with their visualizations. Users in group #2 will tolerate it, but will fear how their reputation would be affected if anybody see them coding. My message hear here is similar to what you have received so far. You need to pivot how you market this solution.
- d--b 6y ago
  Right. This “CEO” story was a test I made yesterday. From a blander “build internal reports fast” kind of message. It clearly produces stronger reactions. In smaller organizations, CTOs often are of type 1, so I am not exactly certain that the message wouldn’t land. Though I agree it is a weird approach.
dvt 6y ago
> Sorry for wasting your time. Not at all, this is what testing out new products is all about! I think you may have something here, but it's hard to figure out exactly what. Don't get me wrong, I think marketing and splash copy is important (a lot of comments are about your website), but I would personally focus first and foremost on the value proposition of your product. > - the whole thing is not exactly javascript, the viewof keyword represents the “html element of the cell”. This needs more than a comment on HN... Gotcha, I was also trying to label a graph's axes based on textlabels (two different cells), but I couldn't figure out how. Some docs, at least specifying what kind of object a graph or a table is expecting would be very helpful. Also, it's kind of odd that md`hello ${text1}` works, whereas I was expecting it to be md`hello ${text1.value}`. The reactivity is awesome though!