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If you want to build a native app, use the native development tools. I've yet to see a third-party platform that offers 'support for building iOS apps' result i

If you want to build a native app, use the native development tools. I've yet to see a third-party platform that offers 'support for building iOS apps' result in good user experiences and positive reviews. Take these, from Conqu for iPad (built with Flash Builder/Flex)[1], for example: "App looks nice when it finally loads. Every function has a serious time lag that makes the app unusable." "However, be warned, this app is painfully s-l-o-w -- at least for me. So slow it has been placed in the "tried apps" bin." [1]: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/conqu/id440591468?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/conqu/id440591468?mt=8

whiskers 15y ago
I agree a well crafted native app will produce a better end result however the time and effort to produce can be prohibitively expensive. I'm not sure there are enough published Apps that have been produced with Flash Builder 4.5 to make a judgement on it one way or another yet. I know I'll be downloading it and giving it a go - I don't mind Objective C but I'd rather be writing my code in other things!
- nupark2 15y ago
  Could you expand on your position regarding the relative cost of developing a native vs. flash application? Is it simply constrained supply? The limited number of Objective-C developers, or that native development requires a higher skill level, thus constraining the number of suitable developers, or ...? (I'm not actually a firm believer in the above, I'm just throwing some brainstorming ideas out there -- I'm even ready to believe it costs less to produce a polished native app than trying to polish a webapp).
  - listic 15y ago
    I think what he means it would be handy if Flash app developers will be able to build iOS app too, without learning a separate tool.
smackfu 15y ago
Someone decided to release these apps in that state, and it wasn't Adobe. Furthermore, it was Apple's vaunted review process that passed these badly working apps.
- glhaynes 15y ago
  AIR and Flex have reputations for being slow even on desktops. It's just like Java on the desktop - yeah, it probably can be used to make nice-feeling stuff, but there's something going on with either the dev tools, the VM, the culture, or something that seems to make these apps tend to be, more often than not, really unpleasant.
- modernerd 15y ago
  Yet Adobe has decided to feature 'badly working' apps in their showcase to display what's possible with their tools. My interpretation as a developer considering their software to build iOS apps is that the apps in their showcase are indicative of what I'd be able to produce for iOS with Flash Builder/Flex.
- albedoa 15y ago
  Am I wrong, or did you just repeat the OP's point? He already knows that these apps are sloppy. He said exactly that: >I've yet to see a third-party platform that offers 'support for building iOS apps' result in good user experiences and positive reviews. Can you provide any apps that result in good user experiences as counterexamples? Or were you not disagreeing with him and I'm just reading you wrong?
benologist 15y ago
Unity? http://unity3d.com/ http://unity3d.com/
- glassx 15y ago
  Unity works fine, indeed. Also the Unreal Engine, which is used on Infinity Blade.
  - schrototo 15y ago
    The Unreal Engine is written in C++, however, which counts as native code. (Although I think games are a different beast altogether. They don't have to adhere to any unifying HIG, and are fully justified in doing their own thing. It doesn't really matter what's underneath in that case, as long as it gets the job done.)
    - glassx 15y ago
      Yes, but I think you missed the point... I was talking about how the Unreal Engine uses a third-party development environment, makes portable content but some of their games are huge success cases on iOS. Basically I was replying to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2674382 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2674382 But I agree 100% with your second assertion.
wallflower 15y ago
It is also important to note that the library encompassing the AIR for iOS Runtime seems to be very large and cannot be shared across apps, making over the air downloads more painful (20mb cap typically applies for 3G OTA) From Conqu (for example). A 25mb tasklist app? Free Category: Productivity Released: Jun 02, 2011 Version: 1.0 1.0 Size: 25.0 MB MuniTracker for iPhone Category: Navigation Updated: Jun 04, 2011 Current Version: 1.1.0 1.1.0 Size: 21.8 MB http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/munitracker/id436932756 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/munitracker/id436932756

whiskers 15y ago

I agree a well crafted native app will produce a better end result however the time and effort to produce can be prohibitively expensive. I'm not sure there are enough published Apps that have been produced with Flash Builder 4.5 to make a judgement on it one way or another yet. I know I'll be downloading it and giving it a go - I don't mind Objective C but I'd rather be writing my code in other things!

nupark2 15y ago
Could you expand on your position regarding the relative cost of developing a native vs. flash application? Is it simply constrained supply? The limited number of Objective-C developers, or that native development requires a higher skill level, thus constraining the number of suitable developers, or ...? (I'm not actually a firm believer in the above, I'm just throwing some brainstorming ideas out there -- I'm even ready to believe it costs less to produce a polished native app than trying to polish a webapp).
- listic 15y ago
  I think what he means it would be handy if Flash app developers will be able to build iOS app too, without learning a separate tool.

smackfu 15y ago

Someone decided to release these apps in that state, and it wasn't Adobe. Furthermore, it was Apple's vaunted review process that passed these badly working apps.

glhaynes 15y ago
AIR and Flex have reputations for being slow even on desktops. It's just like Java on the desktop - yeah, it probably can be used to make nice-feeling stuff, but there's something going on with either the dev tools, the VM, the culture, or something that seems to make these apps tend to be, more often than not, really unpleasant.
modernerd 15y ago
Yet Adobe has decided to feature 'badly working' apps in their showcase to display what's possible with their tools. My interpretation as a developer considering their software to build iOS apps is that the apps in their showcase are indicative of what I'd be able to produce for iOS with Flash Builder/Flex.
albedoa 15y ago
Am I wrong, or did you just repeat the OP's point? He already knows that these apps are sloppy. He said exactly that: >I've yet to see a third-party platform that offers 'support for building iOS apps' result in good user experiences and positive reviews. Can you provide any apps that result in good user experiences as counterexamples? Or were you not disagreeing with him and I'm just reading you wrong?

benologist 15y ago

Unity? http://unity3d.com/ http://unity3d.com/

glassx 15y ago
Unity works fine, indeed. Also the Unreal Engine, which is used on Infinity Blade.
- schrototo 15y ago
  The Unreal Engine is written in C++, however, which counts as native code. (Although I think games are a different beast altogether. They don't have to adhere to any unifying HIG, and are fully justified in doing their own thing. It doesn't really matter what's underneath in that case, as long as it gets the job done.)
  - glassx 15y ago
    Yes, but I think you missed the point... I was talking about how the Unreal Engine uses a third-party development environment, makes portable content but some of their games are huge success cases on iOS. Basically I was replying to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2674382 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2674382 But I agree 100% with your second assertion.

wallflower 15y ago

It is also important to note that the library encompassing the AIR for iOS Runtime seems to be very large and cannot be shared across apps, making over the air downloads more painful (20mb cap typically applies for 3G OTA) From Conqu (for example). A 25mb tasklist app? Free Category: Productivity Released: Jun 02, 2011 Version: 1.0 1.0 Size: 25.0 MB MuniTracker for iPhone Category: Navigation Updated: Jun 04, 2011 Current Version: 1.1.0 1.1.0 Size: 21.8 MB http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/munitracker/id436932756 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/munitracker/id436932756