4 ms·

I'm shocked he even survived. Aren't airplane holds unpressurized? Perhaps airplanes simply flew at lower altitudes in those days. Still, it would have gotten p

by mabbo 6y ago

I'm shocked he even survived. Aren't airplane holds unpressurized? Perhaps airplanes simply flew at lower altitudes in those days. Still, it would have gotten pretty darned cold.

marcinzm 6y ago
I believe the whole plane is pressurized, after all animals survive flights in the hold all the time.
bri3d 6y ago
No, this is a long-standing myth which is entirely false. It wouldn't make sense from an engineering standpoint as it would move the pressure differential to the flat (and thus weak) floor of the airplane, rather than the round (and thus strong) outer hull. However, the hold is not climate controlled to the same degree as the cabin, so he may have gotten cold-ish. But even then, the cargo hold is not a particularly inhospitable place. Living things (animals) are for better or for worse shipped that way all the time.
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > Living things (animals) are for better or for worse shipped that way all the time. They also die a lot this way. https://www.treehugger.com/as-pet-deaths-continue-airlines-pressured-to-change-their-ways-4862979 https://www.treehugger.com/as-pet-deaths-continue-airlines-p...
  - bri3d 6y ago
    I agree that this situation is both tragic and depressingly, probably avoidable, although it is worth pointing out that the rate is just over one in ten thousand for the worst airline (United) or two in 100,000 for the best (Alaska). From my reading, unfortunately causes seem relegated to anecdata in this case as only rates are officially recorded. Reading anecdotes, however, the issues also seem to mostly be related to ground-handling and packaging issues, between animals which are not properly crated (much as the human in the article seems to have been improperly crated!) or are heartbreakingly left on the tarmac for extended timeframes during harsh weather.
  - graton 6y ago
    > They also die a lot this way. Well that article shows a total of 78 animal deaths over a three year period. Out of 1,244,401 animals transported. So a percentage of 0.0063%, which I'm not sure qualifies as "a lot".
Syonyk 6y ago
No, cargo holds are generally pressurized and have been, as far as I know, since the beginning of pressurized aviation (late 40s to early 50s - there were a few test airframes earlier). It doesn't mean cargo compartments are not cold, dark, loud, and unpleasant places to be, but they're pressurized. If you pressurize a cylinder (say, a more or less round airplane fuselage), the stresses become tension stresses around the perimeter - it's trying to inflate the balloon, but the perimeter is designed to handle these stresses. The floor only has to support the weight of passengers. If you had an unpressurized cargo hold, the floor would now need to not only support the weight of passengers, it would have to support the entire pressurization weight - which is far harder, because floors are typically flat. It would have to be far stronger and heavier. There have been several aviation incidents from the cargo doors opening in flight - the DC-10 was particularly prone to the problem, because instead of an inward-opening, "plug" type door (where the pressure holds it in place), it had an outward opening door - more cargo space because the door doesn't swing in, but if the latching mechanism fails (which it did), the pressurization tries to push the door open, and it occasionally succeeded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10#Cargo_door_problem_and_other_major_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10#Cargo_...
- Sebb767 6y ago
  > If you had an unpressurized cargo hold, the floor would now need to not only support the weight of passengers, it would have to support the entire pressurization weight Only if the plane is partly a passenger plane. If it would be a pure cargo plane, the whole back could be unpressurized, or am I missing something?
  - Syonyk 6y ago
    The vast majority of cargo planes are variants on commercial airliners and are pressurized. The other class are military heavy lifters, but they can also be used for troop transport purposes, which means they have to be pressurized as well. In every commonly flown cargo airframe I'm aware of, the crew has the ability to get into the cargo area if needed, which a pressure resistant bulkhead would make very challenging (you'd have to depressurize the plane or have an airlock, and at that point, see "takes a ton of strength and weight you don't have any reason to haul"). There are a few weird, custom cargo planes that aren't pressurized (the Dreamlifter and Beluga cargo compartments aren't pressurized, though the crew compartments are), but they tend to be really weird, one-off designs where it's more trouble than it's worth to design them for pressurization - or, likely, the weird oversize fuselage would have to be far heavier to handle pressurization loads against the flat sides. If you point to a random commercial cargo transport, it's almost certain to be pressurized. In the 1960s, there may have been some unpressurized ones still flying around, but they'd be at a low enough altitude for the flight crew that it wouldn't be a problem back in the cargo compartment either.
hcrisp 6y ago
See my comment elsewhere on the story called Stowaway in which someone climbed into a wheel well and survived a trip from Cuba to Madrid. I just found a long list [0] of people who have done this, sadly only 24% of people who attempt such a thing survive. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_...

by mabbo 6y ago

I'm shocked he even survived. Aren't airplane holds unpressurized? Perhaps airplanes simply flew at lower altitudes in those days. Still, it would have gotten pretty darned cold.

marcinzm 6y ago

I believe the whole plane is pressurized, after all animals survive flights in the hold all the time.

bri3d 6y ago

No, this is a long-standing myth which is entirely false. It wouldn't make sense from an engineering standpoint as it would move the pressure differential to the flat (and thus weak) floor of the airplane, rather than the round (and thus strong) outer hull. However, the hold is not climate controlled to the same degree as the cabin, so he may have gotten cold-ish. But even then, the cargo hold is not a particularly inhospitable place. Living things (animals) are for better or for worse shipped that way all the time.

Judgmentality 6y ago
> Living things (animals) are for better or for worse shipped that way all the time. They also die a lot this way. https://www.treehugger.com/as-pet-deaths-continue-airlines-pressured-to-change-their-ways-4862979 https://www.treehugger.com/as-pet-deaths-continue-airlines-p...
- bri3d 6y ago
  I agree that this situation is both tragic and depressingly, probably avoidable, although it is worth pointing out that the rate is just over one in ten thousand for the worst airline (United) or two in 100,000 for the best (Alaska). From my reading, unfortunately causes seem relegated to anecdata in this case as only rates are officially recorded. Reading anecdotes, however, the issues also seem to mostly be related to ground-handling and packaging issues, between animals which are not properly crated (much as the human in the article seems to have been improperly crated!) or are heartbreakingly left on the tarmac for extended timeframes during harsh weather.
- graton 6y ago
  > They also die a lot this way. Well that article shows a total of 78 animal deaths over a three year period. Out of 1,244,401 animals transported. So a percentage of 0.0063%, which I'm not sure qualifies as "a lot".

Syonyk 6y ago

No, cargo holds are generally pressurized and have been, as far as I know, since the beginning of pressurized aviation (late 40s to early 50s - there were a few test airframes earlier). It doesn't mean cargo compartments are not cold, dark, loud, and unpleasant places to be, but they're pressurized. If you pressurize a cylinder (say, a more or less round airplane fuselage), the stresses become tension stresses around the perimeter - it's trying to inflate the balloon, but the perimeter is designed to handle these stresses. The floor only has to support the weight of passengers. If you had an unpressurized cargo hold, the floor would now need to not only support the weight of passengers, it would have to support the entire pressurization weight - which is far harder, because floors are typically flat. It would have to be far stronger and heavier. There have been several aviation incidents from the cargo doors opening in flight - the DC-10 was particularly prone to the problem, because instead of an inward-opening, "plug" type door (where the pressure holds it in place), it had an outward opening door - more cargo space because the door doesn't swing in, but if the latching mechanism fails (which it did), the pressurization tries to push the door open, and it occasionally succeeded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10#Cargo_door_problem_and_other_major_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10#Cargo_...

Sebb767 6y ago
> If you had an unpressurized cargo hold, the floor would now need to not only support the weight of passengers, it would have to support the entire pressurization weight Only if the plane is partly a passenger plane. If it would be a pure cargo plane, the whole back could be unpressurized, or am I missing something?
- Syonyk 6y ago
  The vast majority of cargo planes are variants on commercial airliners and are pressurized. The other class are military heavy lifters, but they can also be used for troop transport purposes, which means they have to be pressurized as well. In every commonly flown cargo airframe I'm aware of, the crew has the ability to get into the cargo area if needed, which a pressure resistant bulkhead would make very challenging (you'd have to depressurize the plane or have an airlock, and at that point, see "takes a ton of strength and weight you don't have any reason to haul"). There are a few weird, custom cargo planes that aren't pressurized (the Dreamlifter and Beluga cargo compartments aren't pressurized, though the crew compartments are), but they tend to be really weird, one-off designs where it's more trouble than it's worth to design them for pressurization - or, likely, the weird oversize fuselage would have to be far heavier to handle pressurization loads against the flat sides. If you point to a random commercial cargo transport, it's almost certain to be pressurized. In the 1960s, there may have been some unpressurized ones still flying around, but they'd be at a low enough altitude for the flight crew that it wouldn't be a problem back in the cargo compartment either.

hcrisp 6y ago

See my comment elsewhere on the story called Stowaway in which someone climbed into a wheel well and survived a trip from Cuba to Madrid. I just found a long list [0] of people who have done this, sadly only 24% of people who attempt such a thing survive. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_...