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> I think it's probably fair to say that the woke crowd would not oppose such a thing today Why would you think that? To use one example, Bernie Sanders oppos

> I think it's probably fair to say that the woke crowd would not oppose such a thing today Why would you think that? To use one example, Bernie Sanders opposed it then and he would still oppose it today for basically the same reasons. Human Rights Watch et al wrote reports and did investigations about Tibet then and they do reports and investigations about Uighurs now. > In my experience woke folks are very pessimistic about any narrative of progress that would make the US seem better than other countries -- they would quite literally want to defend the idea that the US is no better than China on the whole This is a Fox News caricature of wokeness. To be sure, such people exist and Fox et al seeks them out and amplifies them but mainstream progressives have no problem recognizing that there are important differences. > I can't recall the last time I saw it mentioned in the nytimes for example What are you talking about, there are dozens of stories covering it over the last year https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/uighurs https://www.nytimes.com/topic/subject/uighurs

dnissley 6y ago
My understanding is that Bernie Sanders is not woke -- he's mainly progressive, even socialist, but that's different than woke which is a contingent that focuses on issues of identity excluding (or at least de-emphasizing) class. E.g. he doesn't invoke the phrase "white supremacy" much if at all -- someone who is woke would do that. I guess my point there is that we should draw a distinction between the woke, the center left in general, the socialist left, etc. Not sure if it's really a caricature of wokeness. My girlfriend and her friends are always talking about how "America is a dumpster fire of a country". I found the Hidden Tribes report (https://hiddentribes.us/ https://hiddentribes.us/) eye opening in this regard. Here's a quote from a respondent belonging to the farthest left tribe they name "Progressive Activists" (makes up 8% of total respondents): "The deck is stacked against people of color, against women, against people who don’t have the advantages that others have. It’s not an egalitarian society by any means." Progressive Activists are three times more likely than the average respondent to say they are "ashamed to be an American". (69% V. 24%) The focus by people in the woke camp is constantly on the negative -- you basically can't mention the fact that we've made progress without risking a lecture from them about each and every exception to that fact. re: Uighurs -- my point is not that it doesn't get a lot of coverage, but much of that coverage is not "front page" (as much as anything can be front page in the age of internet journalism). E.g. I went to the nytimes right now -- there is 1 opinion piece there talking about the Uighur situation, but depending on the time of day, I could easily miss it. I actually had to hunt for it to find it, was almost ready to say there wasn't one.

dnissley 6y ago

My understanding is that Bernie Sanders is not woke -- he's mainly progressive, even socialist, but that's different than woke which is a contingent that focuses on issues of identity excluding (or at least de-emphasizing) class. E.g. he doesn't invoke the phrase "white supremacy" much if at all -- someone who is woke would do that. I guess my point there is that we should draw a distinction between the woke, the center left in general, the socialist left, etc. Not sure if it's really a caricature of wokeness. My girlfriend and her friends are always talking about how "America is a dumpster fire of a country". I found the Hidden Tribes report (https://hiddentribes.us/ https://hiddentribes.us/) eye opening in this regard. Here's a quote from a respondent belonging to the farthest left tribe they name "Progressive Activists" (makes up 8% of total respondents): "The deck is stacked against people of color, against women, against people who don’t have the advantages that others have. It’s not an egalitarian society by any means." Progressive Activists are three times more likely than the average respondent to say they are "ashamed to be an American". (69% V. 24%) The focus by people in the woke camp is constantly on the negative -- you basically can't mention the fact that we've made progress without risking a lecture from them about each and every exception to that fact. re: Uighurs -- my point is not that it doesn't get a lot of coverage, but much of that coverage is not "front page" (as much as anything can be front page in the age of internet journalism). E.g. I went to the nytimes right now -- there is 1 opinion piece there talking about the Uighur situation, but depending on the time of day, I could easily miss it. I actually had to hunt for it to find it, was almost ready to say there wasn't one.