4 ms·

In a large repo with many people merging, it helps keep things organized. In my experience you can make an argument for a merge-based workflow up to around 6 p

In a large repo with many people merging, it helps keep things organized. In my experience you can make an argument for a merge-based workflow up to around 6 people. By 12 it's painful and hard to track what's going on, doubly so when you have a dev branch and multiple sustaining branches or something more complicated. By the time you get to 100 people or more committing to the same repo, it just becomes absolute chaos, and at least you can maintain a semblance of sanity in your official branches by forcing a rebase-based workflow on them.

wruza 6y ago
I feel like it’s one of these moments when people speak of git and everyone has their own version of the manual. git-rebase: git rebase master; Now, the snapshot pointed to by C4' is exactly the same as the one that was pointed to by C5 in the merge example. There is no difference in the end product of the integration, but rebasing makes for a cleaner history. What does it even mean to have a rebase-based workflow? In svn-like terms, does it mean that you have to sync-merge before reintegrate-merging? If yes, why is rebase stated as if something completely non-existent before and reinvented? You do sync-merge before reintegrating in svn, otherwise you’ll apply ancient-based patches to the young trunk, which is obviously not what you want. And if you do not use rebase, but use a merge-based workflow, does it mean that you apply ancient-based patches to the master? If yes, of course it will be a conflict hell, cause master could undergo few refactorings in the meantime. It is so confusing when people talk in a different slang, and you can’t tell if they invented something new or just missed something so damn obvious in the old tech. Can you please comment on which of these thoughts are [in]correct?
- Espressosaurus 6y ago
  It's not exactly congruent to what you're describing with SVN. It's all about the DAG of commits and how we're using it to describe the history of the codebase. The end code is identical between the two workflows. A merge-based workflow maintains the work-in-progress history of commits running parallel to main before merging the two together. So your commit tree splits and reforms, with the number of branches at any one time equal to the number of people working on distinct features at one time. It shows you how a feature evolved, which there is some benefit of, but at the cost of an explosion in branches that are now part of the permanent record of your codebase and the main branch you're working in. It rapidly turns into spaghetti with even just a few people working in the repo. A rebase-based workflow will typically compress all the work in progress to a single commit, which then gets applied to the tip of the main branch. This maintains a linear flow of commits where each commit is a single PR. Maintaining that linear flow of commits is increasingly important as the number of people committing to the repo rises and the branches rise with them. Visually, a merge-based workflow might look like this: 4 |\ | \ /3 \ | 2\ | \| |/ |// |/ 1 This would represent 3 features worked on by different people, all branched off the same source (1), and then merging back in. The same thing in a rebase-based workflow would look like this: 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 All of the work in progress is collapsed into a single commit when completing the PR to maintain the linear history. Of course while it was in progress, it resembled the merge-based workflow above. The difference is that instead of merging at the end, they rebased and squashed the commits. Again, the end result in terms of the code is the same. The difference is what you see when you're navigating the history of the repo.
  - wruza 6y ago
    Thanks for taking time on such detailed explanation! So, the benefit of rebase is in a graph view of the repo, not in a conflict resolving workflow (which is consistent with the manual). But why merge-based ... rapidly turns into spaghetti with even just a few people working in the repo Isn’t it just a detail of how graph/report tools work? Can’t they track these merge points and “rebase in their ram”? I don’t get how a graphical representation of merge points may change the workflow. One more thing that is unclear is why some people think that rebase is somehow superior in terms if conflict and reintegration. Like they “had issues with svn and now that rebase is a thing, issues gone”. Maybe they didn’t understand that you have to sync-merge your branches (effectively rebasing) periodically to not diverge from trunk (or parent branch) too much? Added: I know rebase is not congruent with what I’m asking, but my questions are more about how git folks think, not about how git works. Cause I often see its comparison to other VCSs and claims that are vaguely or simply untrue about git competitors. As if before git there was some stoneage.
    - Espressosaurus 6y ago
      It is a detail of how the graph is stored and viewed, but you'll be looking at that graph when bisecting searching for when a regression occurred, or how a particular feature came to be, or when a particular feature landed. The repo rapidly turns into spaghetti with a merge-based workflow because all the work in progress is now part of the historical record for any particular commit to main. You're not looking at a single commit, you're looking at a chain of commits and a merge node. Now imagine there are 20 people committing to the same repo. Your branch factor is exploding! Imagine the picture of my merge-based workflow, but multiplied 7. It rapidly becomes very difficult to navigate. The DAG is important as a historical record because you have to go back to it on a very regular basis. It doesn't change the workflow from a "do your work and commit to the repo, periodically sync with main" perspective. It changes the workflow from a pull request perspective. I've found rebase is (slightly) inferior for conflict resolution and reintegration--mainly because unless you squash your commits down to a single commit, you may need to resolve the same conflict as many times as you have commits after the conflict in the worst case, which is irritating. Merge is just one and done. But that's a minor thing. Having used SVN (briefly) and Mercurial (a lot) and Git (a lot), SVN pushes you into dealing with a single linear history of commits, with cross-branch merges being extremely painful and error-prone if anyone else has worked in the same area. DVCS like Mercurial and Git allow you to do whatever you like for the history, and cross-branch merges are generally easy and pain-free. I can't say anything about the underlying implementations and why it is that way, but that is my lived experience. Most of the time with Mercurial and Git I can let the merge tool resolve differences if there are conflicts with the odd line needing manual intervention. Most of the time there aren't conflicts. And having used SVN a bit...yeah, it's the stone age in comparison. Sometimes you have to make that tradeoff because you can't store everything locally, but I haven't enjoyed the times I've had to use SVN after having used Mercurial and Git. And Git's user interface sucks. I need a Mercurial skin on top of Git so the commands make sense.

wruza 6y ago

I feel like it’s one of these moments when people speak of git and everyone has their own version of the manual. git-rebase: git rebase master; Now, the snapshot pointed to by C4' is exactly the same as the one that was pointed to by C5 in the merge example. There is no difference in the end product of the integration, but rebasing makes for a cleaner history. What does it even mean to have a rebase-based workflow? In svn-like terms, does it mean that you have to sync-merge before reintegrate-merging? If yes, why is rebase stated as if something completely non-existent before and reinvented? You do sync-merge before reintegrating in svn, otherwise you’ll apply ancient-based patches to the young trunk, which is obviously not what you want. And if you do not use rebase, but use a merge-based workflow, does it mean that you apply ancient-based patches to the master? If yes, of course it will be a conflict hell, cause master could undergo few refactorings in the meantime. It is so confusing when people talk in a different slang, and you can’t tell if they invented something new or just missed something so damn obvious in the old tech. Can you please comment on which of these thoughts are [in]correct?

Espressosaurus 6y ago
It's not exactly congruent to what you're describing with SVN. It's all about the DAG of commits and how we're using it to describe the history of the codebase. The end code is identical between the two workflows. A merge-based workflow maintains the work-in-progress history of commits running parallel to main before merging the two together. So your commit tree splits and reforms, with the number of branches at any one time equal to the number of people working on distinct features at one time. It shows you how a feature evolved, which there is some benefit of, but at the cost of an explosion in branches that are now part of the permanent record of your codebase and the main branch you're working in. It rapidly turns into spaghetti with even just a few people working in the repo. A rebase-based workflow will typically compress all the work in progress to a single commit, which then gets applied to the tip of the main branch. This maintains a linear flow of commits where each commit is a single PR. Maintaining that linear flow of commits is increasingly important as the number of people committing to the repo rises and the branches rise with them. Visually, a merge-based workflow might look like this: 4 |\ | \ /3 \ | 2\ | \| |/ |// |/ 1 This would represent 3 features worked on by different people, all branched off the same source (1), and then merging back in. The same thing in a rebase-based workflow would look like this: 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 All of the work in progress is collapsed into a single commit when completing the PR to maintain the linear history. Of course while it was in progress, it resembled the merge-based workflow above. The difference is that instead of merging at the end, they rebased and squashed the commits. Again, the end result in terms of the code is the same. The difference is what you see when you're navigating the history of the repo.
- wruza 6y ago
  Thanks for taking time on such detailed explanation! So, the benefit of rebase is in a graph view of the repo, not in a conflict resolving workflow (which is consistent with the manual). But why merge-based ... rapidly turns into spaghetti with even just a few people working in the repo Isn’t it just a detail of how graph/report tools work? Can’t they track these merge points and “rebase in their ram”? I don’t get how a graphical representation of merge points may change the workflow. One more thing that is unclear is why some people think that rebase is somehow superior in terms if conflict and reintegration. Like they “had issues with svn and now that rebase is a thing, issues gone”. Maybe they didn’t understand that you have to sync-merge your branches (effectively rebasing) periodically to not diverge from trunk (or parent branch) too much? Added: I know rebase is not congruent with what I’m asking, but my questions are more about how git folks think, not about how git works. Cause I often see its comparison to other VCSs and claims that are vaguely or simply untrue about git competitors. As if before git there was some stoneage.
  - Espressosaurus 6y ago
    It is a detail of how the graph is stored and viewed, but you'll be looking at that graph when bisecting searching for when a regression occurred, or how a particular feature came to be, or when a particular feature landed. The repo rapidly turns into spaghetti with a merge-based workflow because all the work in progress is now part of the historical record for any particular commit to main. You're not looking at a single commit, you're looking at a chain of commits and a merge node. Now imagine there are 20 people committing to the same repo. Your branch factor is exploding! Imagine the picture of my merge-based workflow, but multiplied 7. It rapidly becomes very difficult to navigate. The DAG is important as a historical record because you have to go back to it on a very regular basis. It doesn't change the workflow from a "do your work and commit to the repo, periodically sync with main" perspective. It changes the workflow from a pull request perspective. I've found rebase is (slightly) inferior for conflict resolution and reintegration--mainly because unless you squash your commits down to a single commit, you may need to resolve the same conflict as many times as you have commits after the conflict in the worst case, which is irritating. Merge is just one and done. But that's a minor thing. Having used SVN (briefly) and Mercurial (a lot) and Git (a lot), SVN pushes you into dealing with a single linear history of commits, with cross-branch merges being extremely painful and error-prone if anyone else has worked in the same area. DVCS like Mercurial and Git allow you to do whatever you like for the history, and cross-branch merges are generally easy and pain-free. I can't say anything about the underlying implementations and why it is that way, but that is my lived experience. Most of the time with Mercurial and Git I can let the merge tool resolve differences if there are conflicts with the odd line needing manual intervention. Most of the time there aren't conflicts. And having used SVN a bit...yeah, it's the stone age in comparison. Sometimes you have to make that tradeoff because you can't store everything locally, but I haven't enjoyed the times I've had to use SVN after having used Mercurial and Git. And Git's user interface sucks. I need a Mercurial skin on top of Git so the commands make sense.