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Rodent studies aren't really great for measuring this because it's nearly impossible to control for the rodents' enjoyment of each exercise. We know that roden

Rodent studies aren't really great for measuring this because it's nearly impossible to control for the rodents' enjoyment of each exercise. We know that rodents enjoy running wheels because they use them voluntarily. It's not surprising that the exercise they enjoy is the one that seems to produce the most benefits. For humans: Doing any exercise is better than doing no exercise. Doing frequent exercise is better than doing infrequent exercise. The most important thing is to pick an exercise that you enjoy, so you'll be more likely to get out and do it and less likely to come up with excuses to skip a day. Even better: Find an exercise that includes some social activity, even if it's just getting outside and seeing other people in passing as you run past or being in a gym near other people. Social exposure is great for mental health, so combining it with exercise is a good one-two punch. We do have some human studies on BDNF (measured via serum, because we can't get into human brains obviously) and exercise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772595/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772595/ They didn't study different types of exercise, but they did find that longer duration exercise produced greater elevations of BDNF. You don't have to run marathons to capture some of this benefit. A long walk is good enough to get started.

llarsson 6y ago
Yes, whether results for rodents on a seven week exercise program actually transfer to humans remains to be seen. But I would like to point out that besides subjective preference and enjoyment, it is quite clear to me that humans are pretty crap compared to everything physical, except for long-distance running. We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. But as an animal, and on a population level, we are really good at jogging. So besides being useful for endurance hunting, perhaps it is also the kind of upkeep we need to stay healthy physically as well as mentally?
- tejtm 6y ago
  It is the lack of fur allowing sweat cooling that prevents heat stroke that made us the apex predators; we jogged all mega fauna we met to extinction.
  - cma 6y ago
    Other animals sweat though, like horses, hippos (no fur).
    - tejtm 6y ago
      yes those are other not extinct species :)
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  We know that fundamentally it's our endurance that gives us a physical edge, but I am curious... > We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. Are humans the best in aggregate at all of these? Sure, there is always going to be an animal that is faster in one aspect, but are there other animals that are better than humans at all of them?
  - nend 6y ago
    I mean if the criteria is just those four: strength, top speed, climbing ability, swimming ability - there's probably a lot of animals that are subjectively better than us. It would depend on how you measure/aggregate it but off the top of my head you could make an argument for: most large cats, chimpanzee, orangutan, bears, some pigs, etc.
    - rootusrootus 6y ago
      It may be that endurance is all we got. But I was thinking that a chimp is very strong and can climb, but is he any good at running and swimming? A cat is a heck of a runner, but isn't really a great climber aside from specific situations. Humans are fairly adaptable. But probably it just comes down to our endurance/ability to control body temperature, and big brains to devise creative ways of defeating other animals.
      - fogihujy 6y ago
        That's one hell of an advantage on the other hand; not only can we move entire populations in a fairly short time-frame (by simply grabbing our things and walk/run there), we can also adapt to the new surroundings and find ways to thrive. It's easy too see how our ancestors and other hominids colonized the entire planet.
  - mym1990 6y ago
    A physically peak and coordinated human possibly, but it probably comes down to what traits you're actually comparing. Man's advantage is our ability to make tools and be creative. Without proper training and mental prep the average human isn't that fast, can't climb well, won't swim more than 500 feet. If you put the average human today in the middle of the Amazon with nothing, I don't really know if that works out great for most people.
Swizec 6y ago
Running and walking seems to be particularly good for thinking. Could be a link to our evolution, or the fact that it’s a simple exercise you don’t have to focus on and are free to think. Sports are great for getting in the zone but usually too mentally taxing for background thinking. Boxing, for example, is amazing relaxation but you really can’t think about anything else during a round. Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. Other times prolonged low intensity gives just the space you need to hear yourself think.
- vsareto 6y ago
  >Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. HIIT has been great for the rest of the day as long as I don't overdo it, but yeah, completely focused on the workout during that.
  - Swizec 6y ago
    I find HIIT doesn’t do it for me. Can’t push myself hard enough in such short bursts because I have ridiculous cardio conditioning* from running. Boxing is great because it’s hiit but with technique and tactics and strategy. * ridiculous conditioning in that I can keep average heart rate at 155bpm for 2 hours no problem. Most hiit isn’t long enough to get me above 110
    - tomjakubowski 6y ago
      What do you normally do to get to a 155 bpm heart rate? Not an expert but when I've done HIIT workouts, they've always started with a mild warm up to elevate the heart rate. Maybe you'd benefit from something more strenuous to start.
      - swader999 6y ago
        Sprint up hill or grab onto straps and try repeated jumps into the air from a deep squat. Try adding a weighted vest if this isn't enough. If that doesn't work you should join the Navy Seals.
conistonwater 6y ago
> even if it's just getting outside and seeing other people in passing as you run past There is nothing social about that at all, that's just not what the word means.
- mym1990 6y ago
  This feels a little harsh. It is known that when humans see other humans doing similar things a bond(empathy) can be created without ever even talking to that person. When I drive my Jeep and do that little Jeep wave to other Jeeps, that gives me a sense of community with those people(no matter how dumb or weird people driving other cars think it is). When you run and someone runs past you and you do the little head nod, that is absolutely social, you absolutely relate to that person and create a small social bond.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    It's also fun running into those other runners later. I used to run on a 5k trail near my office (for about 5 years), and would see a lot of colleagues later and recognize them from an afternoon or lunchtime run. It created another point of relation for us besides just sharing an office and a mutual boss four levels above us.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  Maybe "social" isn't the right word, but it's a break from isolation. I find that going to the gym just to get out of the house and be in the presence of other people seems to make me feel better. I don't really talk to anyone there, unless it happens to be someone I already know.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Social exposure is a broad definition that doesn't necessarily require talking to someone. Obviously having a conversation with someone is more of a social interaction than sitting quietly in a room with your peers or walking past another person, but any amount of being around people is still more social exposure than being isolated alone in a room. It's the same reason that coding alone in a private office is different than coding quietly in an open office: Being around people is social exposure.
bosswipe 6y ago
I've always hated the idea of gyms or solitary exercize because of the social/fun factor. Why do a boring workout when you could play basketball or tennis or a hundred other active social activities. Admittedly it was easier to find sports partners when I was in college but it's still not that hard to find as an adult with a bit of effort.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  That's you and that's fine but others prefer more solitary passtimes.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Depends on what you're getting out of the exercise. I never found sports (except when I played soccer regularly) to get me the kind of workout and results I was after (even then I was in great cardio condition and could run for hours, but my upper body was weak). Even my friends who prefer sports still spend a few hours (2-5) a week doing other training, including strength or even just more focused cardio, often selected to support or complement their preferred sport.
  - bosswipe 6y ago
    Maybe it's the focused isolated strength training that is missing from most sports-as-workout. But I think something like basketball compares favorably to HIIT type of workouts.
TrevorJ 6y ago
>We know that rodents enjoy running wheels because they use them voluntarily. I can think of a lot of behaviors that humans engage in voluntarily that we would not call 'enjoyable', so I am not certain we can state this categorically. I totally agree with the rest of your statement though, and I would add that people tend to overlook variety as well. Enjoyment is so key, and we tend to enjoy things that are novel. Relative to the cost of a gym membership, it's pretty reasonable to pick up a new activity/active hobby every so often to add to the mix. A plastic kayak, some old skis, a tennis racket. If you are saving 50-100 bucks a month by not paying for a gym, allow yourself the luxury of some new (to you) equipment every couple of months and keep things fresh.

llarsson 6y ago

Yes, whether results for rodents on a seven week exercise program actually transfer to humans remains to be seen. But I would like to point out that besides subjective preference and enjoyment, it is quite clear to me that humans are pretty crap compared to everything physical, except for long-distance running. We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. But as an animal, and on a population level, we are really good at jogging. So besides being useful for endurance hunting, perhaps it is also the kind of upkeep we need to stay healthy physically as well as mentally?

tejtm 6y ago
It is the lack of fur allowing sweat cooling that prevents heat stroke that made us the apex predators; we jogged all mega fauna we met to extinction.
- cma 6y ago
  Other animals sweat though, like horses, hippos (no fur).
  - tejtm 6y ago
    yes those are other not extinct species :)
rootusrootus 6y ago
We know that fundamentally it's our endurance that gives us a physical edge, but I am curious... > We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. Are humans the best in aggregate at all of these? Sure, there is always going to be an animal that is faster in one aspect, but are there other animals that are better than humans at all of them?
- nend 6y ago
  I mean if the criteria is just those four: strength, top speed, climbing ability, swimming ability - there's probably a lot of animals that are subjectively better than us. It would depend on how you measure/aggregate it but off the top of my head you could make an argument for: most large cats, chimpanzee, orangutan, bears, some pigs, etc.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    It may be that endurance is all we got. But I was thinking that a chimp is very strong and can climb, but is he any good at running and swimming? A cat is a heck of a runner, but isn't really a great climber aside from specific situations. Humans are fairly adaptable. But probably it just comes down to our endurance/ability to control body temperature, and big brains to devise creative ways of defeating other animals.
    - fogihujy 6y ago
      That's one hell of an advantage on the other hand; not only can we move entire populations in a fairly short time-frame (by simply grabbing our things and walk/run there), we can also adapt to the new surroundings and find ways to thrive. It's easy too see how our ancestors and other hominids colonized the entire planet.
- mym1990 6y ago
  A physically peak and coordinated human possibly, but it probably comes down to what traits you're actually comparing. Man's advantage is our ability to make tools and be creative. Without proper training and mental prep the average human isn't that fast, can't climb well, won't swim more than 500 feet. If you put the average human today in the middle of the Amazon with nothing, I don't really know if that works out great for most people.

Swizec 6y ago

Running and walking seems to be particularly good for thinking. Could be a link to our evolution, or the fact that it’s a simple exercise you don’t have to focus on and are free to think. Sports are great for getting in the zone but usually too mentally taxing for background thinking. Boxing, for example, is amazing relaxation but you really can’t think about anything else during a round. Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. Other times prolonged low intensity gives just the space you need to hear yourself think.

vsareto 6y ago
>Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. HIIT has been great for the rest of the day as long as I don't overdo it, but yeah, completely focused on the workout during that.
- Swizec 6y ago
  I find HIIT doesn’t do it for me. Can’t push myself hard enough in such short bursts because I have ridiculous cardio conditioning* from running. Boxing is great because it’s hiit but with technique and tactics and strategy. * ridiculous conditioning in that I can keep average heart rate at 155bpm for 2 hours no problem. Most hiit isn’t long enough to get me above 110
  - tomjakubowski 6y ago
    What do you normally do to get to a 155 bpm heart rate? Not an expert but when I've done HIIT workouts, they've always started with a mild warm up to elevate the heart rate. Maybe you'd benefit from something more strenuous to start.
    - swader999 6y ago
      Sprint up hill or grab onto straps and try repeated jumps into the air from a deep squat. Try adding a weighted vest if this isn't enough. If that doesn't work you should join the Navy Seals.

conistonwater 6y ago

> even if it's just getting outside and seeing other people in passing as you run past There is nothing social about that at all, that's just not what the word means.

mym1990 6y ago
This feels a little harsh. It is known that when humans see other humans doing similar things a bond(empathy) can be created without ever even talking to that person. When I drive my Jeep and do that little Jeep wave to other Jeeps, that gives me a sense of community with those people(no matter how dumb or weird people driving other cars think it is). When you run and someone runs past you and you do the little head nod, that is absolutely social, you absolutely relate to that person and create a small social bond.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  It's also fun running into those other runners later. I used to run on a 5k trail near my office (for about 5 years), and would see a lot of colleagues later and recognize them from an afternoon or lunchtime run. It created another point of relation for us besides just sharing an office and a mutual boss four levels above us.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Maybe "social" isn't the right word, but it's a break from isolation. I find that going to the gym just to get out of the house and be in the presence of other people seems to make me feel better. I don't really talk to anyone there, unless it happens to be someone I already know.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
Social exposure is a broad definition that doesn't necessarily require talking to someone. Obviously having a conversation with someone is more of a social interaction than sitting quietly in a room with your peers or walking past another person, but any amount of being around people is still more social exposure than being isolated alone in a room. It's the same reason that coding alone in a private office is different than coding quietly in an open office: Being around people is social exposure.

bosswipe 6y ago

I've always hated the idea of gyms or solitary exercize because of the social/fun factor. Why do a boring workout when you could play basketball or tennis or a hundred other active social activities. Admittedly it was easier to find sports partners when I was in college but it's still not that hard to find as an adult with a bit of effort.

throwawayboise 6y ago
That's you and that's fine but others prefer more solitary passtimes.
Jtsummers 6y ago
Depends on what you're getting out of the exercise. I never found sports (except when I played soccer regularly) to get me the kind of workout and results I was after (even then I was in great cardio condition and could run for hours, but my upper body was weak). Even my friends who prefer sports still spend a few hours (2-5) a week doing other training, including strength or even just more focused cardio, often selected to support or complement their preferred sport.
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Maybe it's the focused isolated strength training that is missing from most sports-as-workout. But I think something like basketball compares favorably to HIIT type of workouts.

TrevorJ 6y ago

>We know that rodents enjoy running wheels because they use them voluntarily. I can think of a lot of behaviors that humans engage in voluntarily that we would not call 'enjoyable', so I am not certain we can state this categorically. I totally agree with the rest of your statement though, and I would add that people tend to overlook variety as well. Enjoyment is so key, and we tend to enjoy things that are novel. Relative to the cost of a gym membership, it's pretty reasonable to pick up a new activity/active hobby every so often to add to the mix. A plastic kayak, some old skis, a tennis racket. If you are saving 50-100 bucks a month by not paying for a gym, allow yourself the luxury of some new (to you) equipment every couple of months and keep things fresh.