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Which type of exercise is best for the brain? (2016)
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoRodent studies aren't really great for measuring this because it's nearly impossible to control for the rodents' enjoyment of each exercise. We know that rodents enjoy running wheels because they use them voluntarily. It's not surprising that the exercise they enjoy is the one that seems to produce the most benefits. For humans: Doing any exercise is better than doing no exercise. Doing frequent exercise is better than doing infrequent exercise. The most important thing is to pick an exercise that you enjoy, so you'll be more likely to get out and do it and less likely to come up with excuses to skip a day. Even better: Find an exercise that includes some social activity, even if it's just getting outside and seeing other people in passing as you run past or being in a gym near other people. Social exposure is great for mental health, so combining it with exercise is a good one-two punch. We do have some human studies on BDNF (measured via serum, because we can't get into human brains obviously) and exercise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772595/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3772595/ They didn't study different types of exercise, but they did find that longer duration exercise produced greater elevations of BDNF. You don't have to run marathons to capture some of this benefit. A long walk is good enough to get started.
- llarsson 5y agoYes, whether results for rodents on a seven week exercise program actually transfer to humans remains to be seen. But I would like to point out that besides subjective preference and enjoyment, it is quite clear to me that humans are pretty crap compared to everything physical, except for long-distance running. We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. But as an animal, and on a population level, we are really good at jogging. So besides being useful for endurance hunting, perhaps it is also the kind of upkeep we need to stay healthy physically as well as mentally?
- tejtm 5y agoIt is the lack of fur allowing sweat cooling that prevents heat stroke that made us the apex predators; we jogged all mega fauna we met to extinction.
- rootusrootus 5y agoWe know that fundamentally it's our endurance that gives us a physical edge, but I am curious... > We are not the fastest. Not the strongest. Not the best swimmers or climbers. Are humans the best in aggregate at all of these? Sure, there is always going to be an animal that is faster in one aspect, but are there other animals that are better than humans at all of them?
- nend 5y agoI mean if the criteria is just those four: strength, top speed, climbing ability, swimming ability - there's probably a lot of animals that are subjectively better than us. It would depend on how you measure/aggregate it but off the top of my head you could make an argument for: most large cats, chimpanzee, orangutan, bears, some pigs, etc.
- rootusrootus 5y agoIt may be that endurance is all we got. But I was thinking that a chimp is very strong and can climb, but is he any good at running and swimming? A cat is a heck of a runner, but isn't really a great climber aside from specific situations. Humans are fairly adaptable. But probably it just comes down to our endurance/ability to control body temperature, and big brains to devise creative ways of defeating other animals.
- Swizec 5y agoRunning and walking seems to be particularly good for thinking. Could be a link to our evolution, or the fact that it’s a simple exercise you don’t have to focus on and are free to think. Sports are great for getting in the zone but usually too mentally taxing for background thinking. Boxing, for example, is amazing relaxation but you really can’t think about anything else during a round. Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. Other times prolonged low intensity gives just the space you need to hear yourself think.
- vsareto 5y ago>Sometimes high intensity stop all other thoughts is exactly what the brain needs. HIIT has been great for the rest of the day as long as I don't overdo it, but yeah, completely focused on the workout during that.
- Swizec 5y agoI find HIIT doesn’t do it for me. Can’t push myself hard enough in such short bursts because I have ridiculous cardio conditioning* from running. Boxing is great because it’s hiit but with technique and tactics and strategy. * ridiculous conditioning in that I can keep average heart rate at 155bpm for 2 hours no problem. Most hiit isn’t long enough to get me above 110
- tomjakubowski 5y agoWhat do you normally do to get to a 155 bpm heart rate? Not an expert but when I've done HIIT workouts, they've always started with a mild warm up to elevate the heart rate. Maybe you'd benefit from something more strenuous to start.
- swader999 5y agoSprint up hill or grab onto straps and try repeated jumps into the air from a deep squat. Try adding a weighted vest if this isn't enough. If that doesn't work you should join the Navy Seals.
- conistonwater 5y ago> even if it's just getting outside and seeing other people in passing as you run past There is nothing social about that at all, that's just not what the word means.
- mym1990 5y agoThis feels a little harsh. It is known that when humans see other humans doing similar things a bond(empathy) can be created without ever even talking to that person. When I drive my Jeep and do that little Jeep wave to other Jeeps, that gives me a sense of community with those people(no matter how dumb or weird people driving other cars think it is). When you run and someone runs past you and you do the little head nod, that is absolutely social, you absolutely relate to that person and create a small social bond.
- Jtsummers 5y agoIt's also fun running into those other runners later. I used to run on a 5k trail near my office (for about 5 years), and would see a lot of colleagues later and recognize them from an afternoon or lunchtime run. It created another point of relation for us besides just sharing an office and a mutual boss four levels above us.
- throwawayboise 5y agoMaybe "social" isn't the right word, but it's a break from isolation. I find that going to the gym just to get out of the house and be in the presence of other people seems to make me feel better. I don't really talk to anyone there, unless it happens to be someone I already know.
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoSocial exposure is a broad definition that doesn't necessarily require talking to someone. Obviously having a conversation with someone is more of a social interaction than sitting quietly in a room with your peers or walking past another person, but any amount of being around people is still more social exposure than being isolated alone in a room. It's the same reason that coding alone in a private office is different than coding quietly in an open office: Being around people is social exposure.
- bosswipe 5y agoI've always hated the idea of gyms or solitary exercize because of the social/fun factor. Why do a boring workout when you could play basketball or tennis or a hundred other active social activities. Admittedly it was easier to find sports partners when I was in college but it's still not that hard to find as an adult with a bit of effort.
- throwawayboise 5y agoThat's you and that's fine but others prefer more solitary passtimes.
- Jtsummers 5y agoDepends on what you're getting out of the exercise. I never found sports (except when I played soccer regularly) to get me the kind of workout and results I was after (even then I was in great cardio condition and could run for hours, but my upper body was weak). Even my friends who prefer sports still spend a few hours (2-5) a week doing other training, including strength or even just more focused cardio, often selected to support or complement their preferred sport.
- bosswipe 5y agoMaybe it's the focused isolated strength training that is missing from most sports-as-workout. But I think something like basketball compares favorably to HIIT type of workouts.
- TrevorJ 5y ago>We know that rodents enjoy running wheels because they use them voluntarily. I can think of a lot of behaviors that humans engage in voluntarily that we would not call 'enjoyable', so I am not certain we can state this categorically. I totally agree with the rest of your statement though, and I would add that people tend to overlook variety as well. Enjoyment is so key, and we tend to enjoy things that are novel. Relative to the cost of a gym membership, it's pretty reasonable to pick up a new activity/active hobby every so often to add to the mix. A plastic kayak, some old skis, a tennis racket. If you are saving 50-100 bucks a month by not paying for a gym, allow yourself the luxury of some new (to you) equipment every couple of months and keep things fresh.
- bozzcl 5y ago*in rats
- huachimingo 5y ago"Solvitur ambulando" - it is solved by walking[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvitur_ambulando https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvitur_ambulando
- enriquto 5y agoDefinitely. In my case, biking has a similar effect. It seems that I get most of my work settled during my morning bike commute.
- dzonga 5y agowe've evolved to have two legs and walk efficiently. walking is greatly underestimated these days due to mechanical inventions. walk walk at least 5 miles daily. now I walk before starting work - feel a burst of energy, mind is cleared up. I try walk slowly.
- 1-6 5y ago"Solvitur lavando" Shower thoughts...
- challengly 5y agoFirst step: Exercise at all. Second step: Optimize, but be careful that it doesn't end up compromising step 1.
- ipnon 5y agoAnecdotally, high intensity exercise like deadlifts or full sprints doesn't leave much room for thinking. But on a half marathon over a few hours, with nothing but the sound of the wind and your feet on the ground, after the first 15 minutes you've already thought through your plans for today, then after the first hour you've already thought back to that mistake you made last week, then it's uncharted territory. So the ability to do some thinking during low intensity exercise surely contributes some benefits to the brain. It's hard to feel any sort of neurosis at the end of a long run for example. My guess is that increased heart rate and blood pressure increases, and sustains for a long time, blood flow in the brain compared to sedentary activity or short, high intensity exercise. From my experience, lots of lifting was great for improving mood, but it wasn't until I began running medium and long distances regularly that I felt any smarter than my couch potato baseline.
- atat7024 5y agoThey don't leave much oxygen for thinking, haha
- tgb 5y agoWhat's the status of adult neurogenesis in humans? Wikipedia says that it's controversial whether or not it exists [1]. If we don't know that happens in humans, what can we make of an a study about exercise-mediated neurogenesis in rats? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_neurogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_neurogenesis
- dang 5y agoDiscussed at the time: Which Type of Exercise Is Best for the Brain? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11117929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11117929 - Feb 2016 (118 comments) Past large related threads — quality not guaranteed: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23946732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23946732 - July 2020 (214 comments) Evolutionary history and why physical activity is important for brain health - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21865579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21865579 - Dec 2019 (123 comments) Ultra-Time-Efficient Exercise Lowers Blood Pressure, Boosts Brain Function - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19626995 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19626995 - April 2019 (43 comments) This is Your Brain on Exercise (2017) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19474967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19474967 - March 2019 (38 comments) How Exercise Might “Clean” the Alzheimer's Brain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18228627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18228627 - Oct 2018 (209 comments) Exercise Increases Brain Size - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15691885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15691885 - Nov 2017 (11 comments) Training exercise boosts brain power, Johns Hopkins researchers say - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15508714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15508714 - Oct 2017 (138 comments) Exercise as a Preventive or Disease-Modifying Treatment for Dementia Brain Aging - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14717547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14717547 - July 2017 (72 comments) Exercise Releases Brain-Healthy Protein - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11995637 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11995637 - June 2016 (180 comments) Which Type of Exercise Is Best for the Brain? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11117929 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11117929 - Feb 2016 (118 comments) Exercise during pregnancy gives newborn brain development a head start - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653274 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7653274 - April 2014 (17 comments) How exercise boosts brain health - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6548908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6548908 - Oct 2013 (42 comments) What happens to our brains when we exercise and how it makes us happier - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4580977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4580977 - Sept 2012 (80 comments) How exercise could lead to a better brain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3881206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3881206 - April 2012 (27 comments) How Exercise Fuels the Brain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3620529 - Feb 2012 (18 comments) Forced Exercise's Effects on the Brain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3106799 - Oct 2011 (57 comments) How Exercise Can Strengthen the Brain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3047554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3047554 - Sept 2011 (60 comments) Brain shifts from glucose to lactate fuel source during exercise. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=320714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=320714 - Oct 2008 (8 comments)
- admax88q 5y ago> For this regimen, the animals were placed on little treadmills and required to sprint at a very rapid and strenuous pace for three minutes, followed by two minutes of slow skittering, with the entire sequence repeated twice more, for a total of 15 minutes of running. I wonder how exactly they were "required" to maintain this pace. Sounds like it could easily have been traumatic, which would have its own effects on neurogenesis.
- mcorning 5y agoMy father has run every day for almost 10 years, a combo pack of speed and distance, but at least a 5k every day. One thing we talked about regarding thinking and running really stuck with me. He sometimes listens to music and audiobooks so that he wouldn't get bored during his runs. Then one day, when his headphones were dead, he went without any music. He found himself having a conversation in his head, addressing questions that he hadn't asked himself in years. Now, it's some truly coveted alone and reflection time. He very often comes back from his runs energized with new ideas or an organized plan of what he needs to tackle next in his job (he's in academia). I have also found the quiet of running to be invaluable at on some days and will often choose the conversation of myself as opposed to tuning in and out of an audiobook.
- jacksonkmarley 5y agoYeah I enjoy audiobooks while walking but if I'm on a walk at lunch and I'm engaged with some interesting thing at work it can be quite interesting to let my mind play with the problem while I'm on walking autopilot
- ausbah 5y agoI've been talking to myself on my runs for years now. it has been a fantastic time for problem solving, especially with coding and big life decisions
- chillacy 5y agoSpending time with your brain’s Default Mode Network sounds very meditative.
- p1mrx 5y agoIf you want to overclock a CPU, you need a decent power supply. If you want to overclock a brain, you need a decent heart and lungs. The point of cardio is to improve your body's power delivery, so it's one of the more accessible human upgrades. For me, the biggest blocker was that I perceived sweating as a bad thing to avoid, until I realized that I could buy clothes to sweat in, and shower at arbitrary times, not just in the morning.
- User23 5y agoHeavy lifting works the CNS like nothing else. Granted we don't think of recruiting motor units as having anything to do with cognition, but fact is it's all one system.
- AtlasBarfed 5y agoHigh intensity aerobics probably maximizes anaerobic threshold (if you push hard enough and have a good instructor) with both mental activity (remembering what to do) and the neurocomplexity of dance moves. Pickup basketball is pretty good too, if you can stay on the court and try hard on defense.
- JesseMReeves 5y agoThey should try qigong. It’s movement meditation and has existed for thousands of years. Probably there was a reason why the Chinese didn’t find weight training and endurance exercises as useful, although it was as accessible to them as it is to us. Difficult to do in rats though.
- failwhaleshark 5y agoThis makes anecdotal, qualitative sense: low-/medium-intensity cardio for extended durations. The challenge is to do volume of such exercise with minimum body impact (not running, especially not barefoot running downhill). Swimming, elliptical, and possibly bicycling seem ideal for least risks of debilitating joint wear and arthritis in later life. Furthermore, exercise involves inflammation and cellular damage. Does extreme exercise volume increase the risks of cancer, aging, and/or reduction in lifespan?
- jwq1 5y agoHave there been any follow-up studies done on humans?
- jwq1 5y agoThe author shared the following insight. "[It's] nearly impossible to study using non-invasive measures in humans. However, there is a paper on effects of exercise in humans where the authors talk about an in vivo correlate of adult neurogenesis: Pereira AC, Huddleston DE, Brickman AM, Sosunov AA, Hen R, McKhann GM, Sloan R, Gage FH, Brown TR & Small SA (2007). Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 104, 5638–5643. This is pretty old, so maybe there would be more recent studies to be found. However, thinking about the relevance of using rodents to study human brain (because we are of course interested in the human brain, not the rat brain), there is close resemblance in terms of structure and function. Please see the following papers for details: Clark RE, Squire LR. 2013. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 110 Suppl 2(Suppl 2):10365-70 Bergmann E, Zur G, Bershadsky G, Kahn I. 2016. Cereb Cortex. 26(12):4497-4512." - Miriam Nokia