9 ms·

California prisons have hundreds of transgender inmates requesting new housing

29 points by nailer 6y ago

olivermarks 6y ago
All of the focus appears to be on men who are now women. I wonder how many women who have become men are anxious to be in a male prison?
- Miner49er 6y ago
  I think the article says: "Of the 261 requests, all but six asked to be housed at a women’s facility."
  - mansion7 6y ago
    Why do a higher percentage of California prisoners identify as trans, than do non-criminal Californians? Is there a known connection between transgenderism and higher crime rates?
    - mariuolo 6y ago
      > Is there a known connection between transgenderism and higher crime rates? No, but there is a known connection between being transgender and resorting to prostitution to survive. Which, unfortunately, is illegal in California.
      - nailer 6y ago
        How do you know the connection between transgenderism and prostitution is based on survival?
      - mansion7 6y ago
        I've read quite a bit about transgenderism as a requirement for my degree, and nothing about them renders them incapable of holding down legal jobs. In fact, they have significant legal protections. Unless you're saying it's because they have to miss so much work because of surgeries, treatments, appointments, dilation breaks, etc? And they resort to hooking because of the flexible schedule?
        locopati 6y ago
        Significant legal protections assumes that someone has the capacity and willingness to wage a legal fight. Meanwhile, as a court case can take years, they still have to put food in their belly and a roof over their head. Given that "at will" employment is so common in the US, it's also pretty easy to fire someone for "reasons" without it being "because trans" (while still being obviously "because trans"). Hiring bias may not even be apparent those those doing the hiring as they hire similar person after similar person because "they fit the culture better", while never questioning the biases that underlie the notion of "culture fit."
  - tfehring 6y ago
    For context, it looks like about 5% of California's prison population is female (by sex) [0], and there are something like 2-4x as many trans women as trans men [1] in the population as a whole. So that discrepancy is probably pretty consistent with the relative prevalence of trans men and trans women in the prison population, meaning that trans men and trans women in prison are probably about equally likely to request a transfer. [0] https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-prison-population/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-prison-populati... [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286423757_The_Demographics_of_the_Transgender_Population https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286423757_The_Demog...
- EpicEng 6y ago
  >I wonder how many women who have become men are anxious to be in a male prison? reply I'm guessing very near zero for obvious reasons. /s?
aceon48 6y ago
Gee I'm sure there no unscrupulous convicts who will pretend to be women to be around women
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. Per TFA: "A transgender woman at a men’s prison, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation, said that she knows at least five inmates who have applied to transfer under false pretenses and that staffers have asked her to help identify such inmates." <subsequent paragraphs address the issue in greater detail>
  - anoonmoose 6y ago
    Downvoted because we know there are unscrupulous people involved in this process already (we are, after all, talking about prison inmates) and only functions as a way to ignore the legitimate question of what should be done with legitimately trans inmates.
    - nailer 6y ago
      Why does being concerned with male violence only function as a way to ignore trans inmates?
DC1350 6y ago
This doesn’t really make sense to me. Sex segregated prisons exist to stop sexual violence but the majority of trans women are attracted to women, and they can easily overpower cis women. I would expect cis women to be more in danger from lesbian trans women than trans women are in danger from men. The gender segregation isn’t for identity reasons!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- giantg2 6y ago
  Not just sexual violence, but sec in general. It's more of a punishment to be locked up and not having sex than if you were free to have sex (even homosexual activity is not allowed in prisons). I think another reason for the gender segregation is to prevent pregnancies.
- mariuolo 6y ago
  > the majority of trans women are attracted to women Do you have a source for that?
  - DC1350 6y ago
    Wikipedia says 60% https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality
virtuous_signal 6y ago
(non-paywall version) https://web.archive.org/web/20210408162031/https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-05/california-prisons-consider-gender-identity-housing-requests https://web.archive.org/web/20210408162031/https://www.latim...
gedy 6y ago
Transitioned I can understand, but the article specifies "regardless of anatomy", which seems like too loose a criteria for potentially violent inmates, group showering, etc.
- ectopod 6y ago
  If someone has transitioned they are transsexual. Transsexuals have had legal rights for decades. The recent transgender rights movement is specifically about people who have not transitioned.
akvadrako 6y ago
There is no reason for prisons to be segregated by gender identity. Either they should be mixed or they should be segregated based on biological sex.
- throwaway667555 6y ago
  >no reason You’re stating a conclusion here, but you’re skipping the argument. People who disagree with you have perfectly valid concerns. Your conclusion might be correct (for the sake of argument) but you provided 0 support for your conclusion. So I think your comment is content-free, or at the very least contributes 0 to the conversation.
  - akvadrako 6y ago
    It's hard to begin an argument with the position of there is no reason to do something. The only way to do it would be erect a straw man, then tear it down.
    - xboxnolifes 6y ago
      Then, how about this. I understand the view of no segregation at all. That's just one big group, no additional work of separation. But how separation by biological sex more meaningful than separation by gender identity?
      - akvadrako 6y ago
        I'm not sure what the main reasons for segregating by bio sex were, but I can think of a few and none apply to gender identity. Maybe the most important is you don't want prisoners getting pregnant.
        endori97 6y ago
        Men in prison are also massively stronger and build shanks out of everything. If you do have a fight break out, hopefully its segregated by sex, otherwise the woman has no chance in the supermajority case.

29 points by nailer 6y ago

All of the focus appears to be on men who are now women. I wonder how many women who have become men are anxious to be in a male prison?

Miner49er 6y ago
I think the article says: "Of the 261 requests, all but six asked to be housed at a women’s facility."
- mansion7 6y ago
  Why do a higher percentage of California prisoners identify as trans, than do non-criminal Californians? Is there a known connection between transgenderism and higher crime rates?
  - mariuolo 6y ago
    > Is there a known connection between transgenderism and higher crime rates? No, but there is a known connection between being transgender and resorting to prostitution to survive. Which, unfortunately, is illegal in California.
    - nailer 6y ago
      How do you know the connection between transgenderism and prostitution is based on survival?
    - mansion7 6y ago
      I've read quite a bit about transgenderism as a requirement for my degree, and nothing about them renders them incapable of holding down legal jobs. In fact, they have significant legal protections. Unless you're saying it's because they have to miss so much work because of surgeries, treatments, appointments, dilation breaks, etc? And they resort to hooking because of the flexible schedule?
      - locopati 6y ago
        Significant legal protections assumes that someone has the capacity and willingness to wage a legal fight. Meanwhile, as a court case can take years, they still have to put food in their belly and a roof over their head. Given that "at will" employment is so common in the US, it's also pretty easy to fire someone for "reasons" without it being "because trans" (while still being obviously "because trans"). Hiring bias may not even be apparent those those doing the hiring as they hire similar person after similar person because "they fit the culture better", while never questioning the biases that underlie the notion of "culture fit."
- tfehring 6y ago
  For context, it looks like about 5% of California's prison population is female (by sex) [0], and there are something like 2-4x as many trans women as trans men [1] in the population as a whole. So that discrepancy is probably pretty consistent with the relative prevalence of trans men and trans women in the prison population, meaning that trans men and trans women in prison are probably about equally likely to request a transfer. [0] https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-prison-population/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/californias-prison-populati... [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286423757_The_Demographics_of_the_Transgender_Population https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286423757_The_Demog...
EpicEng 6y ago
>I wonder how many women who have become men are anxious to be in a male prison? reply I'm guessing very near zero for obvious reasons. /s?

aceon48 6y ago

Gee I'm sure there no unscrupulous convicts who will pretend to be women to be around women

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Per TFA: "A transgender woman at a men’s prison, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation, said that she knows at least five inmates who have applied to transfer under false pretenses and that staffers have asked her to help identify such inmates." <subsequent paragraphs address the issue in greater detail>
- anoonmoose 6y ago
  Downvoted because we know there are unscrupulous people involved in this process already (we are, after all, talking about prison inmates) and only functions as a way to ignore the legitimate question of what should be done with legitimately trans inmates.
  - nailer 6y ago
    Why does being concerned with male violence only function as a way to ignore trans inmates?

DC1350 6y ago

This doesn’t really make sense to me. Sex segregated prisons exist to stop sexual violence but the majority of trans women are attracted to women, and they can easily overpower cis women. I would expect cis women to be more in danger from lesbian trans women than trans women are in danger from men. The gender segregation isn’t for identity reasons!

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
giantg2 6y ago
Not just sexual violence, but sec in general. It's more of a punishment to be locked up and not having sex than if you were free to have sex (even homosexual activity is not allowed in prisons). I think another reason for the gender segregation is to prevent pregnancies.
mariuolo 6y ago
> the majority of trans women are attracted to women Do you have a source for that?
- DC1350 6y ago
  Wikipedia says 60% https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality

virtuous_signal 6y ago

(non-paywall version) https://web.archive.org/web/20210408162031/https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-05/california-prisons-consider-gender-identity-housing-requests https://web.archive.org/web/20210408162031/https://www.latim...

gedy 6y ago

Transitioned I can understand, but the article specifies "regardless of anatomy", which seems like too loose a criteria for potentially violent inmates, group showering, etc.

ectopod 6y ago
If someone has transitioned they are transsexual. Transsexuals have had legal rights for decades. The recent transgender rights movement is specifically about people who have not transitioned.

akvadrako 6y ago

There is no reason for prisons to be segregated by gender identity. Either they should be mixed or they should be segregated based on biological sex.

throwaway667555 6y ago
>no reason You’re stating a conclusion here, but you’re skipping the argument. People who disagree with you have perfectly valid concerns. Your conclusion might be correct (for the sake of argument) but you provided 0 support for your conclusion. So I think your comment is content-free, or at the very least contributes 0 to the conversation.
- akvadrako 6y ago
  It's hard to begin an argument with the position of there is no reason to do something. The only way to do it would be erect a straw man, then tear it down.
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    Then, how about this. I understand the view of no segregation at all. That's just one big group, no additional work of separation. But how separation by biological sex more meaningful than separation by gender identity?
    - akvadrako 6y ago
      I'm not sure what the main reasons for segregating by bio sex were, but I can think of a few and none apply to gender identity. Maybe the most important is you don't want prisoners getting pregnant.
      - endori97 6y ago
        Men in prison are also massively stronger and build shanks out of everything. If you do have a fight break out, hopefully its segregated by sex, otherwise the woman has no chance in the supermajority case.