6 ms·

Same. Have a Dell XPS for work. Sleep used to work fine, and the machine would barely touch its battery if I put it to sleep over a weekend. It doesn't work a

Same. Have a Dell XPS for work. Sleep used to work fine, and the machine would barely touch its battery if I put it to sleep over a weekend. It doesn't work any more: the machine never sleeps properly and drains its battery very quickly, barely making it from Friday night to Monday morning (and not making it at all if I don't plug the power in before I plug anything else in). Note that this isn't a fault with the battery that I can see: battery life is still fine when the machine is being used. I can only assume that at some point over the past couple of years an OS or firmware/driver update broke sleep... which is annoying. (It's one of many reasons I prefer OSX to Windows: sleep always works.)

AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
The reason is that Dell replaced S3 sleep with Modern Standby. Modern standby is turning on my XPS so much it can actually get dangerously hot in my backpack.
- pmontra 6y ago
  I don't use Windows so I didn't know what Modern Standby is. I googled this page https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev... TLDR: "enables the system to stay connected to the network while in a low power mode" [...] "with the added benefit of allowing value-added software activities to run periodically" [...] "When a system service or background task requires network access, Windows automatically transitions the networking device to an active mode" [...] "longer active intervals occur for a variety of reasons, for example, processing incoming email or downloading critical Windows updates." Details about what can temporarily activate Windows in Modern Standby at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/activators https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev... Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep?
  - FeistySkink 6y ago
    On ThinkPads it can be disabled in BIOS.
  - deckard1 6y ago
    > Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep? Yes, on some laptops, such as Lenovo, you can switch from "Windows" to "Linux" sleep mode in BIOS (yes, they are really named after the OS). Here's the rub: you have to reinstall Windows. There used to be registry edit you could do but that seems to no longer work. At least it didn't for me.
  - terinjokes 6y ago
    > Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep? No OP, but most of Dell's current lineup no longer has support for any other modes in the firmware. So no, I can't disable it.
    - pmontra 6y ago
      What happens if you install Linux? Does it stay in traditional sleep because there is no software in the OS to temporarily awake the computer?
      - terinjokes 6y ago
        The new Dell laptops only support "modern sleep". Linux doesn't support this very well, so while things look to go to sleep (eg, screens turn off) the system is still on, just idling. Since Linux doesn't have all the hardware support that Dell's drivers for Windows might, not all hardware devices are put into a low power mode. So often what happens is nothing: the battery often drains completely overnight and it's guaranteed to be dead on Monday morning if I let it "sleep" on Friday.
- exikyut 6y ago
  "Modern Standby": https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-au/000177661/what-is-modern-standby-and-how-does-it-differ-from-s3-standby https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-au/000177661/what-is-m... Also, snrk: > Symptoms > Microsoft introduced Modern Standby in 2012 to improve battery life and the transition between power states, allowing Windows PCs to transition between on/off states faster, like your smartphone does. It's a knowledgebase article using a standard Support/Resolution template (that might not be changeable). The irony is thoroughly amusing and IMO appropriate.
  - bartread 6y ago
    Thanks. This, and the GP, are helpful. Does naturally lead to the question of why in hell they'd implement this when, from my perspective as a user, it's much MUCH worse than S3 sleep.
    - rzzzt 6y ago
      The Bay Trail Atom-based tablets used this, they behaved really like oversized x86 smartphones. When it works ;), it is quite impressive.
- gre 6y ago
  My Macbooks have cooked themselves in my backpack plenty of times over the years.
  - bartread 6y ago
    Sure, mine's done it occasionally (rarely enough to be a surprise when it does happen), but do they do it every single time you put them to sleep? I doubt it. My Dell does this every single time it goes to sleep. It's really aggravating.
    - cma 6y ago
      If you use an SD card, Apple issued an update to have it cook itself every single time, and never enter hibernate, to sell more 2-3x markup native storage space. If you try to fix it, the next update will break it again.
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  You can enable Network Disconnected Modern Standby. Documented well at https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/108378-add-networking-connectivity-standby-power-options-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/108378-add-networking-co... and https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-network-connectivity-modern-standby-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-ne... I recommend the powercfg command line approach instead of the UI.
throwaway8581 6y ago
Some XPS models from recent years have known sleep problems. There is essentially no fix. The best you can do is switch to "network disconnected modern standby." Search for my other post in this thread.
- stevesimmons 6y ago
  I bought a new Dell XPS13 two weeks ago and discovered the hard way - after totally flat batteries - that sleep mode doesn't work. Whereas my other XPS13, the previous year's model, works perfectly. What is totally annoying is my monitor, which has USB C power delivery, won't charge the laptop if its battery is completely flat. So now I have to carry the XPS's power adapter too. I have been an XPS fan for years. But I am so close to sending this one back. (If anyone from Dell reads this, pass back the message that you've lots of really unhappy customers from this)
  - throwaway8581 6y ago
    Sorry to hear it's happening in the latest generation product too. This is really disgraceful by Dell as the issue has been known about for years and they don't seem to care. Same with the crappy thermal pasting job that their factory does. Do not expect the issue to be fixed. People bought XPS's years ago thinking Dell would release a patch in some reasonable amount of time, but it never came. If your use case involves a lot of time away from a charger, I would send it back. Maybe splurge a bit more for a Surface Book, assuming Microsoft cares a little more about putting out a well finished product.
  - isr 6y ago
    I believe that on (some?) Intel 11th gen chips, S3 sleep states are disabled, and only S1 works? S3 = traditional "suspend to ram" S1 = new fangled "kind of sleep, instant on mode" At least, thats what I found on a System76 Lemur Pro, which has the same cpu as the XPS13 (and System76 had to restore the IME, whereas before they used to disable it, just to get some semblence of sleep working) Solution: get an AMD 4800 - powered laptop instead. Same price, double the cores (8 vs 4), much (much) faster and yet runs cooler. And S3 sleep works!
  - 6y ago
superjan 6y ago
Windows machines have the habit of waking from sleep after 3 hours, to do whatever and then fail to go back to sleep when they are done. I only use hibernate for that reason, on an Ssd resume is fast enough.
tssva 6y ago
I got rid of my MacBook about a year ago but when I had it sleep never always worked for me. My current current ThinkPad is just as reliable when sleeping as my MacBook was.
washadjeffmad 6y ago
Sleep doesn't always work on Macs. For instance, when the kernel panics because you shut the lid and stuffed it in your bag before you detached your USB-C mouse and keyboard, so it's overheated or dead by the end of your commute. http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/03/repro/ http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/03/repro/ We've also had pretty awful state issues with Filevaulted Intel Macs from 2014 to present. While more consistent in their quirks than the myriad models and configurations of PCs, Macs haven't really done much to impress anyone but shareholders this past half decade or so.
novirium 6y ago
Highly specific to Dell XPS laptops, but I used to have a similar issue to this. Eventually realised that the display wasn't actually turning off sometimes when I closed the lid. After much mucking around, it eventually turned out that in some of these laptops the magnet in the lid that triggers the "lid closed" action can become physically unstuck, and move around in the display housing (on my XPS 9350 this is in the bottom right corner of the display). Using an external magnet to jiggle it around both allowed testing to trigger the sensor and confirm the issue, and also to move it back to its proper location. Seems to work properly again now.

AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago

The reason is that Dell replaced S3 sleep with Modern Standby. Modern standby is turning on my XPS so much it can actually get dangerously hot in my backpack.

pmontra 6y ago
I don't use Windows so I didn't know what Modern Standby is. I googled this page https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/modern-standby https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev... TLDR: "enables the system to stay connected to the network while in a low power mode" [...] "with the added benefit of allowing value-added software activities to run periodically" [...] "When a system service or background task requires network access, Windows automatically transitions the networking device to an active mode" [...] "longer active intervals occur for a variety of reasons, for example, processing incoming email or downloading critical Windows updates." Details about what can temporarily activate Windows in Modern Standby at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/activators https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev... Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep?
- FeistySkink 6y ago
  On ThinkPads it can be disabled in BIOS.
- deckard1 6y ago
  > Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep? Yes, on some laptops, such as Lenovo, you can switch from "Windows" to "Linux" sleep mode in BIOS (yes, they are really named after the OS). Here's the rub: you have to reinstall Windows. There used to be registry edit you could do but that seems to no longer work. At least it didn't for me.
- terinjokes 6y ago
  > Don't you have a way to disable it and go back to what Microsoft calls Traditional Sleep? No OP, but most of Dell's current lineup no longer has support for any other modes in the firmware. So no, I can't disable it.
  - pmontra 6y ago
    What happens if you install Linux? Does it stay in traditional sleep because there is no software in the OS to temporarily awake the computer?
    - terinjokes 6y ago
      The new Dell laptops only support "modern sleep". Linux doesn't support this very well, so while things look to go to sleep (eg, screens turn off) the system is still on, just idling. Since Linux doesn't have all the hardware support that Dell's drivers for Windows might, not all hardware devices are put into a low power mode. So often what happens is nothing: the battery often drains completely overnight and it's guaranteed to be dead on Monday morning if I let it "sleep" on Friday.
exikyut 6y ago
"Modern Standby": https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-au/000177661/what-is-modern-standby-and-how-does-it-differ-from-s3-standby https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-au/000177661/what-is-m... Also, snrk: > Symptoms > Microsoft introduced Modern Standby in 2012 to improve battery life and the transition between power states, allowing Windows PCs to transition between on/off states faster, like your smartphone does. It's a knowledgebase article using a standard Support/Resolution template (that might not be changeable). The irony is thoroughly amusing and IMO appropriate.
- bartread 6y ago
  Thanks. This, and the GP, are helpful. Does naturally lead to the question of why in hell they'd implement this when, from my perspective as a user, it's much MUCH worse than S3 sleep.
  - rzzzt 6y ago
    The Bay Trail Atom-based tablets used this, they behaved really like oversized x86 smartphones. When it works ;), it is quite impressive.
gre 6y ago
My Macbooks have cooked themselves in my backpack plenty of times over the years.
- bartread 6y ago
  Sure, mine's done it occasionally (rarely enough to be a surprise when it does happen), but do they do it every single time you put them to sleep? I doubt it. My Dell does this every single time it goes to sleep. It's really aggravating.
  - cma 6y ago
    If you use an SD card, Apple issued an update to have it cook itself every single time, and never enter hibernate, to sell more 2-3x markup native storage space. If you try to fix it, the next update will break it again.
throwaway8581 6y ago
You can enable Network Disconnected Modern Standby. Documented well at https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/108378-add-networking-connectivity-standby-power-options-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/108378-add-networking-co... and https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-network-connectivity-modern-standby-windows-10-a.html https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-ne... I recommend the powercfg command line approach instead of the UI.

throwaway8581 6y ago

Some XPS models from recent years have known sleep problems. There is essentially no fix. The best you can do is switch to "network disconnected modern standby." Search for my other post in this thread.

stevesimmons 6y ago
I bought a new Dell XPS13 two weeks ago and discovered the hard way - after totally flat batteries - that sleep mode doesn't work. Whereas my other XPS13, the previous year's model, works perfectly. What is totally annoying is my monitor, which has USB C power delivery, won't charge the laptop if its battery is completely flat. So now I have to carry the XPS's power adapter too. I have been an XPS fan for years. But I am so close to sending this one back. (If anyone from Dell reads this, pass back the message that you've lots of really unhappy customers from this)
- throwaway8581 6y ago
  Sorry to hear it's happening in the latest generation product too. This is really disgraceful by Dell as the issue has been known about for years and they don't seem to care. Same with the crappy thermal pasting job that their factory does. Do not expect the issue to be fixed. People bought XPS's years ago thinking Dell would release a patch in some reasonable amount of time, but it never came. If your use case involves a lot of time away from a charger, I would send it back. Maybe splurge a bit more for a Surface Book, assuming Microsoft cares a little more about putting out a well finished product.
- isr 6y ago
  I believe that on (some?) Intel 11th gen chips, S3 sleep states are disabled, and only S1 works? S3 = traditional "suspend to ram" S1 = new fangled "kind of sleep, instant on mode" At least, thats what I found on a System76 Lemur Pro, which has the same cpu as the XPS13 (and System76 had to restore the IME, whereas before they used to disable it, just to get some semblence of sleep working) Solution: get an AMD 4800 - powered laptop instead. Same price, double the cores (8 vs 4), much (much) faster and yet runs cooler. And S3 sleep works!
- 6y ago

superjan 6y ago

Windows machines have the habit of waking from sleep after 3 hours, to do whatever and then fail to go back to sleep when they are done. I only use hibernate for that reason, on an Ssd resume is fast enough.

tssva 6y ago

I got rid of my MacBook about a year ago but when I had it sleep never always worked for me. My current current ThinkPad is just as reliable when sleeping as my MacBook was.

washadjeffmad 6y ago

Sleep doesn't always work on Macs. For instance, when the kernel panics because you shut the lid and stuffed it in your bag before you detached your USB-C mouse and keyboard, so it's overheated or dead by the end of your commute. http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/03/repro/ http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2020/10/03/repro/ We've also had pretty awful state issues with Filevaulted Intel Macs from 2014 to present. While more consistent in their quirks than the myriad models and configurations of PCs, Macs haven't really done much to impress anyone but shareholders this past half decade or so.

novirium 6y ago

Highly specific to Dell XPS laptops, but I used to have a similar issue to this. Eventually realised that the display wasn't actually turning off sometimes when I closed the lid. After much mucking around, it eventually turned out that in some of these laptops the magnet in the lid that triggers the "lid closed" action can become physically unstuck, and move around in the display housing (on my XPS 9350 this is in the bottom right corner of the display). Using an external magnet to jiggle it around both allowed testing to trigger the sensor and confirm the issue, and also to move it back to its proper location. Seems to work properly again now.