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Besides that this comment has almost nothing to do with the topic, it is factually wrong on multiple levels. The only two things you got right: The EU completel

by jpdus 6y ago

Besides that this comment has almost nothing to do with the topic, it is factually wrong on multiple levels. The only two things you got right: The EU completely botched Vaccine procurement and Ms. VdL, who is German, is ultimately responsible for that. Other than that: Germany was in advanced talks with multiple suppliers way earlier than most EU countries in Summer 2020, was able to spend more and even got offered priority supply from Biontech (which only supplies Germany and Turkey directly, all other countries are supplied through Pfizer). Chancellor Merkel specifically ordered these talks and procurement efforts to be stopped, so that in solidarity with other EU countries procurement would be centralized by the EU (which then did everything wrong without politicians, also German politicians, intervening). In hindsight it would've been way faster, cheaper and easier had Germany just procured enough vaccine for the whole EU on its own. The additional contract you mention was closed after the end of EU talks (not a few weeks after it started),is in no direct competition (as it will be delivered afterwards) and will he shared with other countries anyway. If you look at it from another angle: There is no other country in the world, where one of the best vaccines has been developed and is produced in vast quantities and that has been offered priority supply for the whole population, but declined that and exports way more vaccine than it is using itself. All while the economy is on shutdown and people are dying. I agree that (german) politicians did almost everything wrong in this crisis - but to accuse them of egoism is the last thing that would come to my mind.

ahartmetz 6y ago
Also, a few other EU countries (those that now have the highest vaccination rates) have already ordered vaccines on their own and there was no official reprove from EU. Another reason why it's silly to criticize Germany. Heck, I think all countries should order their own additional doses in whichever way they can because that will increase total supply through higher prices and more firm orders. The EU deal was done with messed up priorities.
- Roark66 5y ago
  >Also, a few other EU countries (those that now have the highest vaccination rates) have already ordered vaccines on their own and there was no official reprove from EU. Another reason why it's silly to criticize Germany. If you don't see the difference between those that come up with the idea of banding together then almost immediately after everyone agrees go against everyone vs the rest which many of went their separate ways later once it became obvious "banding together" was a bad idea from the start I don't think anything I say will convince you. >The EU deal was done with messed up priorities. That's exactly my point.
Roark66 5y ago
How is my comment "factually wrong on many levels"? You didn't show any of my statements as false, you just added additional context. So you say: >Other than that: Germany was in advanced talks with multiple suppliers way earlier than most EU countries in Summer 2020, was able to spend more and even got offered priority supply from Biontech (which only supplies Germany and Turkey directly, all other countries are supplied through Pfizer). Chancellor Merkel specifically ordered these talks and procurement efforts to be stopped, so that in solidarity with other EU countries procurement would be centralized by the EU (which then did everything wrong without politicians, also German politicians, intervening). How does the above negate that German politicians were the first in EU to say they'll procure the vaccine by themselves few weeks after the EU procurement deliveries started? You talk about what happened directly after the end of EU talks. I talk about stuff that happened weeks later when it was apparent German-led EU effort was botched. Also I talk about it being "German led" not because U. Vdl happens to be German, but because first, it was a German's idea everyone agreed to, second I've heard they were given a leading role in the talks no doubt due to their prior involvement with the companies you mentioned(this may or may not be true as it is an unofficial information - names of 7 people from the so called Joint Negotiation Team have been kept secret by the commission despite multiple requests from the journalists, Eu Parliament members etc.) Now, looking at the whole situation a cynic could say - Germany was very involved in talks with manufacturers, but they were worried the rest of EU will start a bidding war with them so they got everyone involved in the " botched common procurement scheme" to finish their negotiations in peace. Then they cancelled their own already negotiated contract to show everyone they are serious. Fast forward to few weeks later. It becomes apparent common procurement is a botched job. Every other country has to consider if they want to start individual procurement negotiations while Germany has an already negotiated contract template they can pull out of a drawer. Is it an accurate description of intentions? Who knows, but based on the actions one could think that. German (federal) state actions annoy so many people elsewhere not because they are egoistic, but because at the same time as being self interest centered they are constantly telling other countries how greatly altruistic they are. Hypocrisy is what annoys people. Every democracy on earth treats its own citizens as priority - that is unsurprising. Not many of them, however, lecture neighbors on altruistic values while at the same time being the same as everyone else.

by jpdus 6y ago

ahartmetz 6y ago

Also, a few other EU countries (those that now have the highest vaccination rates) have already ordered vaccines on their own and there was no official reprove from EU. Another reason why it's silly to criticize Germany. Heck, I think all countries should order their own additional doses in whichever way they can because that will increase total supply through higher prices and more firm orders. The EU deal was done with messed up priorities.

Roark66 5y ago
>Also, a few other EU countries (those that now have the highest vaccination rates) have already ordered vaccines on their own and there was no official reprove from EU. Another reason why it's silly to criticize Germany. If you don't see the difference between those that come up with the idea of banding together then almost immediately after everyone agrees go against everyone vs the rest which many of went their separate ways later once it became obvious "banding together" was a bad idea from the start I don't think anything I say will convince you. >The EU deal was done with messed up priorities. That's exactly my point.

Roark66 5y ago

How is my comment "factually wrong on many levels"? You didn't show any of my statements as false, you just added additional context. So you say: >Other than that: Germany was in advanced talks with multiple suppliers way earlier than most EU countries in Summer 2020, was able to spend more and even got offered priority supply from Biontech (which only supplies Germany and Turkey directly, all other countries are supplied through Pfizer). Chancellor Merkel specifically ordered these talks and procurement efforts to be stopped, so that in solidarity with other EU countries procurement would be centralized by the EU (which then did everything wrong without politicians, also German politicians, intervening). How does the above negate that German politicians were the first in EU to say they'll procure the vaccine by themselves few weeks after the EU procurement deliveries started? You talk about what happened directly after the end of EU talks. I talk about stuff that happened weeks later when it was apparent German-led EU effort was botched. Also I talk about it being "German led" not because U. Vdl happens to be German, but because first, it was a German's idea everyone agreed to, second I've heard they were given a leading role in the talks no doubt due to their prior involvement with the companies you mentioned(this may or may not be true as it is an unofficial information - names of 7 people from the so called Joint Negotiation Team have been kept secret by the commission despite multiple requests from the journalists, Eu Parliament members etc.) Now, looking at the whole situation a cynic could say - Germany was very involved in talks with manufacturers, but they were worried the rest of EU will start a bidding war with them so they got everyone involved in the " botched common procurement scheme" to finish their negotiations in peace. Then they cancelled their own already negotiated contract to show everyone they are serious. Fast forward to few weeks later. It becomes apparent common procurement is a botched job. Every other country has to consider if they want to start individual procurement negotiations while Germany has an already negotiated contract template they can pull out of a drawer. Is it an accurate description of intentions? Who knows, but based on the actions one could think that. German (federal) state actions annoy so many people elsewhere not because they are egoistic, but because at the same time as being self interest centered they are constantly telling other countries how greatly altruistic they are. Hypocrisy is what annoys people. Every democracy on earth treats its own citizens as priority - that is unsurprising. Not many of them, however, lecture neighbors on altruistic values while at the same time being the same as everyone else.