4 ms·

> disproportionately harm trans people and be used to emotionally manipulate all of us I see this claim frequently being made in such contexts, but it's never

> disproportionately harm trans people and be used to emotionally manipulate all of us I see this claim frequently being made in such contexts, but it's never explained. Spotify playing music that matches your mood hurts trans people?

hayyyyydos 6y ago
Check out the start of the next paragraph > Queer indie-punk musician and Fight for the Future director Evan Greer has released a new music video for the song “Surveillance Capitalism,” ahead of the release of the album Spotify is Surveillance. That raised a red flag for me. Why is this person's gender identity in any way relevant to the issue at hand? In the same way the text calls out emotion recognition software as "racist pseudoscience" (then linking to an article about facial recognition) - which doesn't have much at all to do with the patent. Bought to you by the "Union of Musicians" - the same people who claim Spotify make "enormous profits" (I wouldn't call them enormous) and want 1 cent per play. They want Spotify to pay them, but they also want to damage Spotify's reputation? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot Further to that, check out the Union of Musicians' subcommittees [1] - there's a "Classical Music Accountability" subcommittee (classical music = white supremacy?)... and a Police Abolition committee, of course. [1] https://www.unionofmusicians.org/subcommittees https://www.unionofmusicians.org/subcommittees
- cumwolf 6y ago
  There are definitely elements of racism rooted in Classical music. Classical music is not something that was historically accessible to the masses. Minorities have not always been allowed to participate in it the same way White people were allowed to. with a quick internet search you can find out more from more legitimate sources.
  - hayyyyydos 6y ago
    It's interesting because it's the first time I've thought about it (not a big listener of classical music) - but whether or not classical music is racist isn't really why I bought that one up. The group seems to be sidetracked with every single cause, a subcommittee for every minority group... which, to me, takes away from the main purpose of a Union of Musicians - getting paid/treated properly (as a whole). Which just reminds me of how this webpage gets sidetracked from the main issue. The main issue should be: listening in on conversations is creepy.
snicksnak 6y ago
This trope is everywhere now. I see this so often now where high profile substack writers are constantly being smeared as transphobic. It's a tactic, and defense and offense strategy and I'm tired of it. Can't take anyone serious anymore how writes something like that.
- xxxxhhhh 6y ago
  When it first starts it’s a powerful way to silence people and defame them, but it seems like it’s slowly losing currency. Normal people notice that it’s a blunt weapon more than serious advocacy for the marginalized.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Or you could be charitable to the author and at least try to understand their view instead of assuming that it’s some cold political move. Machine learning detection of people’s gender in the real world is anywhere from annoying to distressing to trans people because all the training data is cis people and so they get matched with their AGAB. Can you imagine how terrible it would be to already hate and be super self-conscious about your voice only to have Spotify start telling you via recommendations that you don’t pass well enough. Yikes.
  - hayyyyydos 6y ago
    > Can you imagine how terrible it would be to already hate and be super self-conscious about your voice only to have Spotify start telling you via recommendations that you don’t pass well enough. Although the patent may be creepy... The text of the patent refers to media recommendation (not advertising) - contrary to the sibling comment where you claim it will result in ads for Dollar Shave Club, the patent does not once use the term "advertising". Sure, it could be used for that, but I don't think that's the main intention at all. How are you going to know that Spotify has recommended you a song based on your gender? Are we assigning genders to songs now? Straight white cis males can like Aqua's "Barbie Girl", too.
    - Spivak 6y ago
Spivak 6y ago
Spotify’s algorithms try to detect your gender as part of the profile they build about you. The training data will be all cis people and so trans people are likely going to get matched against their AGAB. This really sucks for trans people to have some system they have no influence over constantly serving them ads and music targeted at an identity that causes them distress. A trans woman constantly getting ads for dollar shave club, Nivia for men, and Weezer is hugely invalidating simply because some machine learning algorithm says she sounds like a man. Good god imagine having to perform a stereotypical version of your gender identity for your phone just to get the recommendations you want.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  Pretty sure Spotify will mess this up regardless of actual gender. I live in Germany but only speak English. Spotify can't work out what language to serve anything to me in.

hayyyyydos 6y ago

Check out the start of the next paragraph > Queer indie-punk musician and Fight for the Future director Evan Greer has released a new music video for the song “Surveillance Capitalism,” ahead of the release of the album Spotify is Surveillance. That raised a red flag for me. Why is this person's gender identity in any way relevant to the issue at hand? In the same way the text calls out emotion recognition software as "racist pseudoscience" (then linking to an article about facial recognition) - which doesn't have much at all to do with the patent. Bought to you by the "Union of Musicians" - the same people who claim Spotify make "enormous profits" (I wouldn't call them enormous) and want 1 cent per play. They want Spotify to pay them, but they also want to damage Spotify's reputation? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot Further to that, check out the Union of Musicians' subcommittees [1] - there's a "Classical Music Accountability" subcommittee (classical music = white supremacy?)... and a Police Abolition committee, of course. [1] https://www.unionofmusicians.org/subcommittees https://www.unionofmusicians.org/subcommittees

cumwolf 6y ago
There are definitely elements of racism rooted in Classical music. Classical music is not something that was historically accessible to the masses. Minorities have not always been allowed to participate in it the same way White people were allowed to. with a quick internet search you can find out more from more legitimate sources.
- hayyyyydos 6y ago
  It's interesting because it's the first time I've thought about it (not a big listener of classical music) - but whether or not classical music is racist isn't really why I bought that one up. The group seems to be sidetracked with every single cause, a subcommittee for every minority group... which, to me, takes away from the main purpose of a Union of Musicians - getting paid/treated properly (as a whole). Which just reminds me of how this webpage gets sidetracked from the main issue. The main issue should be: listening in on conversations is creepy.

snicksnak 6y ago

This trope is everywhere now. I see this so often now where high profile substack writers are constantly being smeared as transphobic. It's a tactic, and defense and offense strategy and I'm tired of it. Can't take anyone serious anymore how writes something like that.

xxxxhhhh 6y ago
When it first starts it’s a powerful way to silence people and defame them, but it seems like it’s slowly losing currency. Normal people notice that it’s a blunt weapon more than serious advocacy for the marginalized.
Spivak 6y ago
Or you could be charitable to the author and at least try to understand their view instead of assuming that it’s some cold political move. Machine learning detection of people’s gender in the real world is anywhere from annoying to distressing to trans people because all the training data is cis people and so they get matched with their AGAB. Can you imagine how terrible it would be to already hate and be super self-conscious about your voice only to have Spotify start telling you via recommendations that you don’t pass well enough. Yikes.
- hayyyyydos 6y ago
  > Can you imagine how terrible it would be to already hate and be super self-conscious about your voice only to have Spotify start telling you via recommendations that you don’t pass well enough. Although the patent may be creepy... The text of the patent refers to media recommendation (not advertising) - contrary to the sibling comment where you claim it will result in ads for Dollar Shave Club, the patent does not once use the term "advertising". Sure, it could be used for that, but I don't think that's the main intention at all. How are you going to know that Spotify has recommended you a song based on your gender? Are we assigning genders to songs now? Straight white cis males can like Aqua's "Barbie Girl", too.
  - Spivak 6y ago

Spivak 6y ago

Spotify’s algorithms try to detect your gender as part of the profile they build about you. The training data will be all cis people and so trans people are likely going to get matched against their AGAB. This really sucks for trans people to have some system they have no influence over constantly serving them ads and music targeted at an identity that causes them distress. A trans woman constantly getting ads for dollar shave club, Nivia for men, and Weezer is hugely invalidating simply because some machine learning algorithm says she sounds like a man. Good god imagine having to perform a stereotypical version of your gender identity for your phone just to get the recommendations you want.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
marcus_holmes 6y ago
Pretty sure Spotify will mess this up regardless of actual gender. I live in Germany but only speak English. Spotify can't work out what language to serve anything to me in.