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These sorts of anti-SUV articles always seem to miss that, you know, people ain't buying SUVs for shits and giggles. In my case, for example, I need a vehicle

These sorts of anti-SUV articles always seem to miss that, you know, people ain't buying SUVs for shits and giggles. In my case, for example, I need a vehicle that's flexible enough to be able to handle hauling moderately-big things (or lots of smaller things) or can haul friends and family around, and I often need to be able to do that in e.g. snowy weather where a combination of all-terrain tires and 4WD/AWD is invaluable. An SUV or CUV/crossover is arguably the most affordable option at that intersection of features. That said, if 4WD/AWD vans were easier to find, I'd probably switch over to one, since even a minivan is strictly superior on the fronts of both cargo and passenger space (especially with removable seats). Unfortunately, relatively few seem to be on the market whenever I've looked (at least at reasonable prices), and even fewer have good enough ground clearance to not effectively turn into a boat when snow driving (though I guess I could get one lifted, lol).

M2Ys4U 6y ago
>I often need to be able to do that in e.g. snowy weather where a combination of all-terrain tires and 4WD/AWD is invaluable How often does it snow enough for that to be a problem? It can't be more than a couple of days a year, we don't get that much snow in cities.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  That depends a lot on your geography. There are a lot of parts of the US - particularly inland, and at northern latitudes - where being able to drive in the snow is absolutely necessary for much of winter and even a good chunk of spring/fall. And even for those geographies where it's only "a couple of days a year", that's still a couple of days where if you really need to be on the road for some reason, you'll really wish you had the right vehicle for it.
  - gotorazor 6y ago
    I live in Canada. In southern Ontario now, but grew up in one of the snowiest parts of Canada. Honest to god, we drove Corolla and Camry’s. FWD. it’s good. You get slightly better traction with AWD, but when the roads are covered in black ice, it doesn’t really matter how many wheels you have that can drive the car. The thing that you want in the snow are snow tires. They cost $500. That’s it. Hell, sometimes we don’t even put the snow tires on. I haven’t in the past two winters.
    - dasKrokodil 6y ago
      This ^^ For decades, the two scandinavian car makers Volvo and Saab didn't even offer AWD cars. And it snows a lot up there.
    - yellowapple 6y ago
      > Honest to god, we drove Corolla and Camry’s. FWD. it’s good. Great. Glad to hear that works well enough for y'all. Speaking from firsthand experience living in the Sierra Nevada mountains (first Truckee, now Reno), though, such cars have a much harder time here. Main thing is the not-so-flat terrain: being able to distribute horsepower across all four tires helps quite a bit in getting up hills (I've watched plenty of sedans helplessly slide back down even mild grades, tires spinning away, where proper 4WD/AWD vehicles - mine included - had no trouble at all). Even on flat ground, having all four tires producing power makes it a lot easier to get moving, and a lot easier to escape from an uncontrolled slide. FWD is certainly better than nothing, sure, but I wouldn't be picking it over 4WD any time soon. That is: > The thing that you want in the snow are snow tires. They cost $500. That’s it. Snow tires and 4WD/AWD address different aspects of snow driving. Snow tires (or chains) help you stop. 4WD or AWD help you go. Both help you turn. Both are pretty important if you don't want to be stuck in some snowdrift. And all bets are off if it's ice rather than snow. Also, in at least some parts of the US (incl., again from first-hand experience, I-80 through the Sierra Nevadas), 4WD/AWD and snow tires are mandatory if you don't want to chain up (up to the maximum chain control level, at which point chains are mandatory no matter what, but usually roads close entirely before that point). So if you expect to drive under chain control conditions, most people are gonna just opt for the 4WD rather than worry about having to chain up. > Hell, sometimes we don’t even put the snow tires on. I haven’t in the past two winters. It's pretty hard to not buy all-weather (i.e. marked "M+S" for mud+snow) tires nowadays (at least for SUVs and trucks; not sure about smaller vehicles), so I ain't too surprised that you'd be able to get away with this.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
Yeah, everyone has some justification for why they are a special case.
- yellowapple 6y ago
  The point is, those justifications do exist. If they didn't, then why spend a bunch of money on an SUV when one can buy a sedan on the cheap? If a sedan satisfied my needs, then I'd be driving a sedan. It doesn't, and therefore I don't.

M2Ys4U 6y ago

>I often need to be able to do that in e.g. snowy weather where a combination of all-terrain tires and 4WD/AWD is invaluable How often does it snow enough for that to be a problem? It can't be more than a couple of days a year, we don't get that much snow in cities.

yellowapple 6y ago
That depends a lot on your geography. There are a lot of parts of the US - particularly inland, and at northern latitudes - where being able to drive in the snow is absolutely necessary for much of winter and even a good chunk of spring/fall. And even for those geographies where it's only "a couple of days a year", that's still a couple of days where if you really need to be on the road for some reason, you'll really wish you had the right vehicle for it.
- gotorazor 6y ago
  I live in Canada. In southern Ontario now, but grew up in one of the snowiest parts of Canada. Honest to god, we drove Corolla and Camry’s. FWD. it’s good. You get slightly better traction with AWD, but when the roads are covered in black ice, it doesn’t really matter how many wheels you have that can drive the car. The thing that you want in the snow are snow tires. They cost $500. That’s it. Hell, sometimes we don’t even put the snow tires on. I haven’t in the past two winters.
  - dasKrokodil 6y ago
    This ^^ For decades, the two scandinavian car makers Volvo and Saab didn't even offer AWD cars. And it snows a lot up there.
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    > Honest to god, we drove Corolla and Camry’s. FWD. it’s good. Great. Glad to hear that works well enough for y'all. Speaking from firsthand experience living in the Sierra Nevada mountains (first Truckee, now Reno), though, such cars have a much harder time here. Main thing is the not-so-flat terrain: being able to distribute horsepower across all four tires helps quite a bit in getting up hills (I've watched plenty of sedans helplessly slide back down even mild grades, tires spinning away, where proper 4WD/AWD vehicles - mine included - had no trouble at all). Even on flat ground, having all four tires producing power makes it a lot easier to get moving, and a lot easier to escape from an uncontrolled slide. FWD is certainly better than nothing, sure, but I wouldn't be picking it over 4WD any time soon. That is: > The thing that you want in the snow are snow tires. They cost $500. That’s it. Snow tires and 4WD/AWD address different aspects of snow driving. Snow tires (or chains) help you stop. 4WD or AWD help you go. Both help you turn. Both are pretty important if you don't want to be stuck in some snowdrift. And all bets are off if it's ice rather than snow. Also, in at least some parts of the US (incl., again from first-hand experience, I-80 through the Sierra Nevadas), 4WD/AWD and snow tires are mandatory if you don't want to chain up (up to the maximum chain control level, at which point chains are mandatory no matter what, but usually roads close entirely before that point). So if you expect to drive under chain control conditions, most people are gonna just opt for the 4WD rather than worry about having to chain up. > Hell, sometimes we don’t even put the snow tires on. I haven’t in the past two winters. It's pretty hard to not buy all-weather (i.e. marked "M+S" for mud+snow) tires nowadays (at least for SUVs and trucks; not sure about smaller vehicles), so I ain't too surprised that you'd be able to get away with this.

tonyedgecombe 6y ago

Yeah, everyone has some justification for why they are a special case.

yellowapple 6y ago
The point is, those justifications do exist. If they didn't, then why spend a bunch of money on an SUV when one can buy a sedan on the cheap? If a sedan satisfied my needs, then I'd be driving a sedan. It doesn't, and therefore I don't.