4 ms·

> because they are required to The government is not requiring cops to send innocent people to jail, kill extrajudicially, or otherwise ruin peoples’ lives sim

> because they are required to The government is not requiring cops to send innocent people to jail, kill extrajudicially, or otherwise ruin peoples’ lives simply because they felt like it. In fact, that’s the exact opposite of justice, which is actually their mandate. > There’s no rational distinction between [police officers and health inspectors] One has leeway to kill innocent people outside of the court system based on subjective characteristics (“I was scared”) with little consequence, the other checks a court-approved checklist and passes or fails based on an objective criteria. > No same person would ever work in law enforcement if their kid’s college fund is subject to being raised because they did their jobs Again, it is antithetical to their job to carry out injustice, and when people mess up their job bad enough, such a killing or framing an innocent person (intentionally or not), there should be consequences. Similar to how bad surgeons who have a clear pattern of killing their patients (intentionally or not) are taken out of operating rooms and medicinal license potentially revoked, or the corrupt lawyer who colludes with the other side in return for kickbacks is disbarred. Unlike the overworked DMV employee who didn’t properly register someone in the system and wasted most of their day, when an overworked cop messes up, someone just lost a whole more time they’ll never get back — potentially a life’s worth.

torstenvl 6y ago
> Again, it is antithetical to their job to carry out injustice, and when people mess up their job bad enough, such a killing or framing an innocent person (intentionally or not), there should be consequences. You can't talk about justice in one breath and vengeance against the fall guy in the next. If a police officer unintentionally kills an innocent person because they were, e.g., ordered to perform an armed no-knock raid in the middle of the night in a state where 42.4% of the population owns firearms, it is the local government -- not the individual police officer -- who killed that innocent person.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- thebradbain 6y ago
  That’s not the type of scenario that people have in mind when they’re talking about the systemic failure of qualified immunity — in a functional court system, such a case would shake out naturally (either a non-punishable offense or involuntary manslaughter, depending on context, as after all, an innocent person was killed), while still allowing crimes such as manufacturing evidence or reckless negligence or murder to go punished. As it is, a citizen cannot normally charge a cop with a crime, so all legal recourse against the police must go through a civil court in practice, where the doctrine of qualified immunity acts as a shield
- watwut 6y ago
  If gun possession is legal, then it should not be ok to kill an innocent person just because they possess a gun. Yes state is guilty too. But, seriously, you accept that death of innocent person in a raid is normal result of normal police behavior? Even if there is reason for no-knock raid, cops dont have to kill everything that moves.
  - torstenvl 6y ago
    It is a normal result to fear for your life when armed men storm your residence in the middle of the night. If you are armed, it is a normal result to protect your home with force from such an invasion. If the arrestee responds with armed force, it is a normal result that the police will do so as well. If they do, it is certainly a foreseeable result that someone will end up dead. By ordering a no-knock raid in the middle of the night, the mayor and police chief set up a situation where the arrestee's right of self-defense and the police officers' rights of self-defense are on a collision course.
- sneak 6y ago
  The government cannot act, it has no mass. Only human beings can act. The person who pulls the trigger is the one who is the killer. The local government has no hands with which to operate a firearm's trigger. Please be very careful not to misattribute or diffuse the responsibility for unnecessary violence carried out by violent, criminal cops.

torstenvl 6y ago

> Again, it is antithetical to their job to carry out injustice, and when people mess up their job bad enough, such a killing or framing an innocent person (intentionally or not), there should be consequences. You can't talk about justice in one breath and vengeance against the fall guy in the next. If a police officer unintentionally kills an innocent person because they were, e.g., ordered to perform an armed no-knock raid in the middle of the night in a state where 42.4% of the population owns firearms, it is the local government -- not the individual police officer -- who killed that innocent person.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
thebradbain 6y ago
That’s not the type of scenario that people have in mind when they’re talking about the systemic failure of qualified immunity — in a functional court system, such a case would shake out naturally (either a non-punishable offense or involuntary manslaughter, depending on context, as after all, an innocent person was killed), while still allowing crimes such as manufacturing evidence or reckless negligence or murder to go punished. As it is, a citizen cannot normally charge a cop with a crime, so all legal recourse against the police must go through a civil court in practice, where the doctrine of qualified immunity acts as a shield
watwut 6y ago
If gun possession is legal, then it should not be ok to kill an innocent person just because they possess a gun. Yes state is guilty too. But, seriously, you accept that death of innocent person in a raid is normal result of normal police behavior? Even if there is reason for no-knock raid, cops dont have to kill everything that moves.
- torstenvl 6y ago
  It is a normal result to fear for your life when armed men storm your residence in the middle of the night. If you are armed, it is a normal result to protect your home with force from such an invasion. If the arrestee responds with armed force, it is a normal result that the police will do so as well. If they do, it is certainly a foreseeable result that someone will end up dead. By ordering a no-knock raid in the middle of the night, the mayor and police chief set up a situation where the arrestee's right of self-defense and the police officers' rights of self-defense are on a collision course.
sneak 6y ago
The government cannot act, it has no mass. Only human beings can act. The person who pulls the trigger is the one who is the killer. The local government has no hands with which to operate a firearm's trigger. Please be very careful not to misattribute or diffuse the responsibility for unnecessary violence carried out by violent, criminal cops.