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Maybe it could still happen? It seems like a super high value challenge that the BDFL could take on: build out the official set of tools (setup.py, twine, virtu

Maybe it could still happen? It seems like a super high value challenge that the BDFL could take on: build out the official set of tools (setup.py, twine, virtualenv, pip) to support features that make people seek out alternatives (pyproject.toml, poetry, flit, conda, pyenv, pipenv).

staticassertion 6y ago
I think the time has passed, both in terms of there no longer being a BDFL, as well as Python passing a point where the call can be made.
- divbzero 6y ago
  Sadly I bet you’re right on this. My small sliver of hope is that Guido van Rossum’s ideas to “make using Python better” [1] include better packaging. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25071847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25071847
  - takluyver 6y ago
    There are quite a lot of people working on better packaging (look at the Python discourse forum, for instance), but this is not really a topic that Guido has got involved in, at least in the time I've been paying attention. But with or without a BDFL, one packaging tool to rule them all is a pretty tall order. The needs of a package like scipy, which incorporates C & Fortran code, are pretty different from something like requests. And different communities using Python have their own entrenched tools and techniques. It takes more than someone saying "Foo is officially blessed" to shift that, even if everyone respects the person saying that.
jolux 6y ago
I realize this is controversial but from reading the docs I really thought Pipenv was the official solution. Took me a while to realize this wasn't the case.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- divbzero 6y ago
  I went through the same progression, thinking pipenv was the official solution before deciding it wasn’t. Then, just now, I realized that pipenv [1] is currently owned by the Python Packaging Authority (PyPA) who also owns pip [2] and virtualenv [3]. I don’t know the right answer but this illustrates the confusion of not coalescing around an official solution. [1]: https://github.com/pypa/pipenv https://github.com/pypa/pipenv [2]: https://github.com/pypa/pip https://github.com/pypa/pip [3]: https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv
  - xapata 6y ago
    As I understand it, that was to prevent bad behavior rather than to signal approval.
  - toyg 6y ago
    What happened was that Kenneth Reitz socially-engineered his way into the PyPA to get his tool blessed. The community lashed out (since the tool had obvious shortcomings and a somewhat dubious development process) and recommendations were softened. Eventually the PyPA had to take over pipenv when Reitz had other issues, and they are now forever burdened with what is a bit of a dud.
arthurcolle 6y ago
Is there a new BDFL? I remember reading this half a year ago or so https://hub.packtpub.com/why-guido-van-rossum-quit/ https://hub.packtpub.com/why-guido-van-rossum-quit/

staticassertion 6y ago

I think the time has passed, both in terms of there no longer being a BDFL, as well as Python passing a point where the call can be made.

divbzero 6y ago
Sadly I bet you’re right on this. My small sliver of hope is that Guido van Rossum’s ideas to “make using Python better” [1] include better packaging. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25071847 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25071847
- takluyver 6y ago
  There are quite a lot of people working on better packaging (look at the Python discourse forum, for instance), but this is not really a topic that Guido has got involved in, at least in the time I've been paying attention. But with or without a BDFL, one packaging tool to rule them all is a pretty tall order. The needs of a package like scipy, which incorporates C & Fortran code, are pretty different from something like requests. And different communities using Python have their own entrenched tools and techniques. It takes more than someone saying "Foo is officially blessed" to shift that, even if everyone respects the person saying that.

jolux 6y ago

I realize this is controversial but from reading the docs I really thought Pipenv was the official solution. Took me a while to realize this wasn't the case.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
divbzero 6y ago
I went through the same progression, thinking pipenv was the official solution before deciding it wasn’t. Then, just now, I realized that pipenv [1] is currently owned by the Python Packaging Authority (PyPA) who also owns pip [2] and virtualenv [3]. I don’t know the right answer but this illustrates the confusion of not coalescing around an official solution. [1]: https://github.com/pypa/pipenv https://github.com/pypa/pipenv [2]: https://github.com/pypa/pip https://github.com/pypa/pip [3]: https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv
- xapata 6y ago
  As I understand it, that was to prevent bad behavior rather than to signal approval.
- toyg 6y ago
  What happened was that Kenneth Reitz socially-engineered his way into the PyPA to get his tool blessed. The community lashed out (since the tool had obvious shortcomings and a somewhat dubious development process) and recommendations were softened. Eventually the PyPA had to take over pipenv when Reitz had other issues, and they are now forever burdened with what is a bit of a dud.

arthurcolle 6y ago

Is there a new BDFL? I remember reading this half a year ago or so https://hub.packtpub.com/why-guido-van-rossum-quit/ https://hub.packtpub.com/why-guido-van-rossum-quit/