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Or burning down a police precinct. Or literally fire bombing federal buildings for MONTHS with virtually no consequences. And all the while politicians and medi

Or burning down a police precinct. Or literally fire bombing federal buildings for MONTHS with virtually no consequences. And all the while politicians and media egg it on. The duplicity on the violence issue is both stunning and terrifying.

stonogo 6y ago
I dunno, I tend to regard property damage and murder to be different things. I have been surprised to see how many people disagree, and I'm still trying to understand that perspective.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  It depends on the scale of property damage - lives aren’t worth infinite amounts after all. I would say damage in the millions is automatically equivalent to murder. But it doesn’t even have to go that far. Destroying someone’s small business (as an example) is also tantamount to murder - if a person pours years of their life, taking time away from their family, experiencing great stress, taking risks, and surviving via sheer grit, and then sees all of that destroyed by rioting black bloc hooligans in one short night, they would be utterly devastated. That’s a human cost and it is comparable to murder because someone poured their life into building that business. Then there’s collateral damage. Much of the rioting in the last year was criminality in service of a political goal. That is the literal definition of terrorism. These actions create fear in political opponents and aim to achieve political goals outside our legal process. That has a human cost. But if I had to simplify it, life is a period of time. And time is used by people to acquire or create property. Therefore when that property is stolen or destroyed, it is taking away life. A more comprehensive opinion: https://fee.org/articles/vandalism-is-violence-destructive-riots-are-not-just-property-damage/ https://fee.org/articles/vandalism-is-violence-destructive-r...
  - stonogo 6y ago
    Insurance policies can't bring people back to life, though.
- yerwhat01010 6y ago
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/us/body-minneapolis-protests-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/us/body-minneapolis-prote...
- Rule35 6y ago
  In Portland protestors have clubbed police on the head with bats (and famously a wrench), tried to set the courthouse on fire, and tried to set the mayor's occupied apartment building on fire. Attempted murder, and arson of occupied structures. Far worse than the capitol riot. Also, who the violence was directed at. In DC most of the rioters were unarmed and fought with police. In Portland and LA many protestors were armed and fought passing citizens, attacked drivers, etc. Police don't "deserve" to be hit, but they sign up knowing that the job can get rough. Random old ladies protesting the vandalism of their building shouldn't be hit but the justice mobs feel free to hurt anyone.
taurath 6y ago
They accomplished the goal of getting people to maybe think about police violence. It’s clear that lighter protests didn’t get any action or attention. If violence is so intolerable, I would like to see some calls for justice from those who seem more concerned about the protection of buildings than people’s lives. Stop pretending the violence came from nothing. I have friends with burns on their legs from getting hit by stun grenades while actually peacefully protesting. You won’t believe that, but you can find video after video of police actively attacking peaceful protestors.
- listless 6y ago
  I do believe that. Certainly violence begets more violence and the police are certainly not blameless. All of that said, lets be careful not to boil this down to property damage so we can justify it. 19 people died in those summer riots. The property destruction affected mostly poor areas and minority business owners. The duplicity is stunning and terrifying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests#:~:text=Deaths,-The%20relevance%20of&text=According%20to%20Forbes%2C%20as%20of,people%20died%20during%20the%20protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_dur....
  - taurath 6y ago
    Not claiming its only property damage, sorry if I seemed to imply. I'm sorry you're afraid of what has happened and how its been covered. I think the protests themselves will ultimately lead us to a better place - though of course any violence is not helpful to get to that better place.
    - listless 6y ago
      I hope that you are right, and despite my pessimistic demeanor, I do believe ultimately good and necessary change will happen. Perhaps we can learn from the negative along the way. Thank you for your positive responses.

stonogo 6y ago

I dunno, I tend to regard property damage and murder to be different things. I have been surprised to see how many people disagree, and I'm still trying to understand that perspective.

throwawaysea 6y ago
It depends on the scale of property damage - lives aren’t worth infinite amounts after all. I would say damage in the millions is automatically equivalent to murder. But it doesn’t even have to go that far. Destroying someone’s small business (as an example) is also tantamount to murder - if a person pours years of their life, taking time away from their family, experiencing great stress, taking risks, and surviving via sheer grit, and then sees all of that destroyed by rioting black bloc hooligans in one short night, they would be utterly devastated. That’s a human cost and it is comparable to murder because someone poured their life into building that business. Then there’s collateral damage. Much of the rioting in the last year was criminality in service of a political goal. That is the literal definition of terrorism. These actions create fear in political opponents and aim to achieve political goals outside our legal process. That has a human cost. But if I had to simplify it, life is a period of time. And time is used by people to acquire or create property. Therefore when that property is stolen or destroyed, it is taking away life. A more comprehensive opinion: https://fee.org/articles/vandalism-is-violence-destructive-riots-are-not-just-property-damage/ https://fee.org/articles/vandalism-is-violence-destructive-r...
- stonogo 6y ago
  Insurance policies can't bring people back to life, though.
yerwhat01010 6y ago
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/us/body-minneapolis-protests-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/21/us/body-minneapolis-prote...
Rule35 6y ago
In Portland protestors have clubbed police on the head with bats (and famously a wrench), tried to set the courthouse on fire, and tried to set the mayor's occupied apartment building on fire. Attempted murder, and arson of occupied structures. Far worse than the capitol riot. Also, who the violence was directed at. In DC most of the rioters were unarmed and fought with police. In Portland and LA many protestors were armed and fought passing citizens, attacked drivers, etc. Police don't "deserve" to be hit, but they sign up knowing that the job can get rough. Random old ladies protesting the vandalism of their building shouldn't be hit but the justice mobs feel free to hurt anyone.

taurath 6y ago

They accomplished the goal of getting people to maybe think about police violence. It’s clear that lighter protests didn’t get any action or attention. If violence is so intolerable, I would like to see some calls for justice from those who seem more concerned about the protection of buildings than people’s lives. Stop pretending the violence came from nothing. I have friends with burns on their legs from getting hit by stun grenades while actually peacefully protesting. You won’t believe that, but you can find video after video of police actively attacking peaceful protestors.

listless 6y ago
I do believe that. Certainly violence begets more violence and the police are certainly not blameless. All of that said, lets be careful not to boil this down to property damage so we can justify it. 19 people died in those summer riots. The property destruction affected mostly poor areas and minority business owners. The duplicity is stunning and terrifying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests#:~:text=Deaths,-The%20relevance%20of&text=According%20to%20Forbes%2C%20as%20of,people%20died%20during%20the%20protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_dur....
- taurath 6y ago
  Not claiming its only property damage, sorry if I seemed to imply. I'm sorry you're afraid of what has happened and how its been covered. I think the protests themselves will ultimately lead us to a better place - though of course any violence is not helpful to get to that better place.
  - listless 6y ago
    I hope that you are right, and despite my pessimistic demeanor, I do believe ultimately good and necessary change will happen. Perhaps we can learn from the negative along the way. Thank you for your positive responses.