5 ms·

This never seems to be a popular sentiment, but here goes anyway. A few years ago I spent a month traveling overland in Iran from Astara in the north (we start

by nickt 6y ago

This never seems to be a popular sentiment, but here goes anyway. A few years ago I spent a month traveling overland in Iran from Astara in the north (we started in Azerbaijan - that’s a story in itself) to Bandar Abbas in the south (and then on to Dubai). What a country. An incredible country - the history, geography and the people. I’ve been lucky enough to have lived in half a dozen countries, and visited around 80. Iran is my favourite. The historical sites alone are worth several books, and there are many. But the people are what makes a place, and the Iranians are an amazing people. Like everywhere else I’ve traveled people are have relatively simple needs, keep their family safe, be reasonably comfortable and have a laugh and a drink with your friends. In the cities, the moms pickup their kids from school in minivans and drives them to soccer matches. It seems that the majority of folks have (illegal?) sat TV and watch American and European shows. They know what’s going on in the world. Many are (carefully) very critical of their government. They are intelligent and thoughtful debaters. In mosques, churches and even synagogues, people made time for us, patiently answering our western-biased questions without judgement. There’s obviously a religious element in everyday life, though in our limited time there it didn’t get in the way. We had a run in with the Republican Guard and our friends told us, no jokes, be serious, these guys can cause real headaches. We treated it like a border crossing (be courteous, honest, and only answer exactly what’s asked) and it was no problem. We also met a guy who I suspect was secret police, but as tourists we were treated well and with respect and were invited to his house to have dinner with his family - again for another time. I’m not a naive traveler, and like to follow the twists and turns of a journey. I’ve not experienced anywhere like Iran and especially the people there. They are the most western of the eastern countries, and many of the folks I spent time with shared many of our values - unlike the current rhetoric from official channels in the US and UK would have you believe. I recommend going and making your own mind up, and yes, the music was amazing.

nickt 6y ago
PS while I’d wanted to visit Iran for many years, I was pushed over the edge once I read Paul William Robert’s book - The Journey of the Magi (not the TS Eliot poem, but that’s good too). https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/366942.Journey_of_the_Magi https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/366942.Journey_of_the_Ma...
jonah 6y ago
My grandparents and dad and uncle lived there for several years in the 50s. They have shared many amazing stories of their time there. (Pre-islamic revolution, while the Shah was in power, but still, the people are the same.)
- nickt 6y ago
  We heard plenty of stories pre-revolution too. I get the feeling that the Iranians understand the long-term, almost like a lifetime or two is not really that significant. A few decades or centuries mean nothing to them. I suppose having ~8000 years of history counts for something!
  - eternalban 6y ago
    We Iranians do not have 8000 years of Iranian history. That is rather too generous. Those bits of artifacts and archeological sites that do date to 8000 years ago are pre-Elamite and Elam and Susiana were themselves not not an Iranian people. Iran is not a geographic construct: it is (and remains in the current diaspora), true to its nomadic Aryan roots, a portable civilization of mind, heart, and spirit. Proto-Iranians date to 2nd millenium B.C. The Medes were the first Iranian urban civilization in the Iranian Plateau and they date to 3000 years ago. The Pars ("Persians") - a related Iranian tribe (Achaemenid Shahanshah Cyrus's grandfather was the king of the Medes) - followed. Subsequent to Alexander, there was a period of Greek occupation, followed by 2 lesser known, but actually culturally more influential than Achaemenids, Iranian empires: the Parthians and the hugely influential Sassanian. Elam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam Mede: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes Pars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire Seleucids (Greek occupation): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire Parthian (of the Parthian 'shot' fame): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire Sasanians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran
    - 6y ago
mytec 6y ago
This YouTube personality Indigo Traveller has what I thought to be an interesting series of videos on his visit to Iran. A number of similarities in what you wrote and what his videos showed. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0FlxE6vY5BJbDJiGWk0gG00c2E07BSF https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0FlxE6vY5BJbDJiGWk0...
h0l0cube 6y ago
To anyone who wishes to get a feel for the country, I would highly recommend watching anything by Abbas Kiarostami or Asghar Farhadi. Some are a bit new-wave-ish, but The White Balloon is very approachable and family friendly. And each film often has little nice touches that reveal aspects of the culture, and characters and writing with plenty of depth.
- js2 6y ago
  Here's a top 100 Iranian films list which includes five by Kiarostami and one by Farhadi in the top 10: https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list/top-100-iranian-films-scfz-poll/ https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list/top-100-iranian-film... A Separation is among the best dramas I've ever seen, period. It's been years since I've seen Children of Heaven but I recall very much enjoying it too.
  - h0l0cube 6y ago
    I did like A Separation for how it drew you into its ethical dilemmas, and also how it kept the truth hidden from you as much as it was for the main character who acts a witness to the unfolding conflict. I also thought the last scene was a beautiful counterpoint to the heaviness of the film.
    - js2 6y ago
      Agreed. I was less drawn in by About Elly. A Moment of Innocence, Close-Up, Where Is My Friend's Home?, and Persepolis are next up on my watch list. A Moment of Innocence is a bit hard to find and seems to be available only on DVD. I thought A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night was pretty entertaining. It was made in the U.S., but by an Iranian-American and its setting is fictional (“Bad City”) with Persian dialog. It has a Jim Jarmusch feel to it.
      - aryonoco 6y ago
        As an Iranian cinephile, that's a good list. My favourite is probably Persepolis but I'm biased as my coming of age story is very similar to the story's heroine.
cambalache 6y ago
Why would you assume all the dishes are illegal? Why are you surprised they are "intelligent"? LOL. They are just people.Not enlightened brutes or exotic diversions for the white traveler.People, boring and nice and exasperating. The only "westerner" I have seen who portrays "foreign" people correctly is Joe Sacco. Highly recommended. He just portrays humans as humans, no matter if they are in Bosnia, Canada or Palestine.
mwlp 6y ago
I've been wanting to visit Iran ever since I watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LEgowbzSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LEgowbzSc , where a guy tells the story of him riding a Honda C90 through the country.
- how2cflags 6y ago
  I fondly remember watching this video a few years ago, so thank you for posting it. As a two wheel enthusiast myself who hasn't had a chance to explore much of the world, I've been actually wanting to try and see if I could do something similar myself once things hopefully go back to normal.
- djKianoosh 6y ago
  My uncle in Iran has a ton of videos and photos from years of doing custom tours throughout the region. In case you really want to take the trip, you might get some good ideas here: https://soroosh-travels.com/adventurous-tours-in-iran-nature-tours-in-iran/ https://soroosh-travels.com/adventurous-tours-in-iran-nature...
  - nickt 6y ago
    Wow - the bike stuff looks amazing. The problem with travel - travel begets travel...
- nickt 6y ago
  Thanks - not seen that. Extra points for the Noel Edmonds!
- omk 6y ago
  This guy has a video on India. And as an Indian, it gave me fresh perspective on my own country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPne-q4ynts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPne-q4ynts Spoiler alert: not at all positive.
  - breitling 6y ago
    Oh man, that was some video. Thanks for sharing.
Arubis 6y ago
Curious: have you found your sentiment to be unpopular here historically? As framed, it seems perfectly reasonable. Plenty of nations full of wonderful people with rich cultures are run by polarizing politicians.
- nickt 6y ago
  I agree with that. Within a couple of hours of being back in the US, at dinner, folks were disagreeing with me over things I'd seen with my own eyes in the previous week. I've talked about it a lot at events, and there's often a feeling like I'm saying something that goes against the grain, or at least the narrative, and I must be wrong. A handful of folks always hang around and talk in more detail. I love talking to them.
  - EB-Barrington 6y ago
    Hi, I think we have similar interests in travel (80 countries, many visits to Iran!). I lead tours in Iran, you may find this interesting: at the end of each tour, I warn my guests that when they return to their own countries, a large proportion of their friends/families just won't believe any of their Iran stories. Personally, it took my mother several years to believe me that Iran was safe for tourists. Each time I returned, she would say something like "well, you were lucky because I heard on the news that Iran was dangerous". People still don't believe me, and I've been coming and going to Iran for about 8 years. Iran does really attract the best tourists: people with a sense of adventure, no crippling fear of the unknown, and a love of humanity.
voldacar 6y ago
I'm curious since you call it the most western of the eastern countries - about what percentage of the population speaks at least some English? How hard would it be to just show up as a foreigner with no knowledge of the language and do stuff like get directions, book a hotel/apartment, etc?
- nickt 6y ago
  I have no idea of the percentage of English speakers, but I didn't have a problem. This Quora answer [1] mentions that younger people are more likely to speak English, and I saw that but the interactions with middle-aged people was OK too. There's usually a way to get by. With the professional class there, their conversational English was excellent. [1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-speak-English-in-Iran https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-speak-English-in-Iran
tptacek 6y ago
I'm not sure why this would be unpopular. Iran is the place I would most like to visit in the world. The politics are complicated (I'm American), which sucks, but the attraction to the country, and the culture, seems obvious.
rado 6y ago
Yes, everyone who has visited, has loved it. https://www.rado.bg/?s=Iran https://www.rado.bg/?s=Iran
globular-toast 6y ago
It sounds like you liked Iranians because they were more similar to you than you thought they were. That doesn't sound particularly mind blowing.
srean 6y ago
Lack of popularity in US ? I have had most wonderful interaction with Irani people and would love to visit.
bloak 6y ago
I once read an interview with an experienced travel writer in which one of the questions was something like: Which is the most interesting country to visit? The answer was something like: Perhaps France, but that's too boring and obvious an answer; if not France, then Iran.
yyyk 6y ago
It's a wonderful country, the problem is that the propensity of its regime to take hostages by arresting tourists for trumped-up felonies. e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/10/australia/kylie-moore-gilbert-iran-australia-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/10/australia/kylie-moore-gil... https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-learned-in-an-iranian-prison-11614200732 https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-learned-in-an-iranian-pr...
- EB-Barrington 6y ago
  Your comment is a great example of what I have noticed for many years now, and may be helpful for anyone with an interest in reading about Iran: Whenever am article about Iran is written, no matter what the topic (in this case, simply Iranian music), if the article paints something about Iran in a positive light there will be a comment regarding either: a) terrorism b) homosexuality c) tourist hostages These comments are almost exclusively written by Iranian expats, children of Iranian expats, Israeli's, or people who have never been to Iran. Almost always, the comments are provably wrong, blown out of a proportion, or define Iran by standards that are not applied to other countries. Iran is the best country on the planet to be a tourist in, like another poster on this thread I have also visited around 80 countries, and returned to Iran countless times.
  - yyyk 6y ago
    The GP explicitly suggested visiting. Once the issue was mentioned, it was fair and useful to remind people of the risks of being held hostage. I wouldn't have piped in if it wasn't mentioned. I assume good faith and hope others return the favour, so I won't be backhandedly blaming people for running a campaign. It's an open forum, not a social bubble, we should expect to find people with different opinions here. Some of them are even wrong on the internet!
    - EB-Barrington 6y ago
      Just trying to spread the word that whenever Iran is mentioned positively, people will always, without fail, mention blown out of proportion things like the "risk" of visiting Iran (when the risk of visiting, say, Tehran as a tourist is measurably and quantifiably lower than say, visiting Chicago). Cheers, all in good faith here.
2wrist 6y ago
Sounds like you had a great trip!! I sued to hang out on motorbike forums and I remember that it seemd that the two places people raved about travelling through were Iran and Syria. It is a funny world. BTW the BBC last year did a series by the awesome Samira Ahmed called the Art of Persia. It is stunning.
Alkhwarizmi 6y ago
What a beautiful description!! Thanks for taking me back to my childhood memories, I personally hail from Azerbaijan but Zendebad Iran!

by nickt 6y ago

nickt 6y ago

PS while I’d wanted to visit Iran for many years, I was pushed over the edge once I read Paul William Robert’s book - The Journey of the Magi (not the TS Eliot poem, but that’s good too). https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/366942.Journey_of_the_Magi https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/366942.Journey_of_the_Ma...

jonah 6y ago

My grandparents and dad and uncle lived there for several years in the 50s. They have shared many amazing stories of their time there. (Pre-islamic revolution, while the Shah was in power, but still, the people are the same.)

nickt 6y ago
We heard plenty of stories pre-revolution too. I get the feeling that the Iranians understand the long-term, almost like a lifetime or two is not really that significant. A few decades or centuries mean nothing to them. I suppose having ~8000 years of history counts for something!
- eternalban 6y ago
  We Iranians do not have 8000 years of Iranian history. That is rather too generous. Those bits of artifacts and archeological sites that do date to 8000 years ago are pre-Elamite and Elam and Susiana were themselves not not an Iranian people. Iran is not a geographic construct: it is (and remains in the current diaspora), true to its nomadic Aryan roots, a portable civilization of mind, heart, and spirit. Proto-Iranians date to 2nd millenium B.C. The Medes were the first Iranian urban civilization in the Iranian Plateau and they date to 3000 years ago. The Pars ("Persians") - a related Iranian tribe (Achaemenid Shahanshah Cyrus's grandfather was the king of the Medes) - followed. Subsequent to Alexander, there was a period of Greek occupation, followed by 2 lesser known, but actually culturally more influential than Achaemenids, Iranian empires: the Parthians and the hugely influential Sassanian. Elam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam Mede: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes Pars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire Seleucids (Greek occupation): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire Parthian (of the Parthian 'shot' fame): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire Sasanians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran
  - 6y ago

mytec 6y ago

This YouTube personality Indigo Traveller has what I thought to be an interesting series of videos on his visit to Iran. A number of similarities in what you wrote and what his videos showed. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0FlxE6vY5BJbDJiGWk0gG00c2E07BSF https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN0FlxE6vY5BJbDJiGWk0...

h0l0cube 6y ago

To anyone who wishes to get a feel for the country, I would highly recommend watching anything by Abbas Kiarostami or Asghar Farhadi. Some are a bit new-wave-ish, but The White Balloon is very approachable and family friendly. And each film often has little nice touches that reveal aspects of the culture, and characters and writing with plenty of depth.

js2 6y ago
Here's a top 100 Iranian films list which includes five by Kiarostami and one by Farhadi in the top 10: https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list/top-100-iranian-films-scfz-poll/ https://letterboxd.com/fliptrotsky/list/top-100-iranian-film... A Separation is among the best dramas I've ever seen, period. It's been years since I've seen Children of Heaven but I recall very much enjoying it too.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  I did like A Separation for how it drew you into its ethical dilemmas, and also how it kept the truth hidden from you as much as it was for the main character who acts a witness to the unfolding conflict. I also thought the last scene was a beautiful counterpoint to the heaviness of the film.
  - js2 6y ago
    Agreed. I was less drawn in by About Elly. A Moment of Innocence, Close-Up, Where Is My Friend's Home?, and Persepolis are next up on my watch list. A Moment of Innocence is a bit hard to find and seems to be available only on DVD. I thought A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night was pretty entertaining. It was made in the U.S., but by an Iranian-American and its setting is fictional (“Bad City”) with Persian dialog. It has a Jim Jarmusch feel to it.
    - aryonoco 6y ago
      As an Iranian cinephile, that's a good list. My favourite is probably Persepolis but I'm biased as my coming of age story is very similar to the story's heroine.

cambalache 6y ago

Why would you assume all the dishes are illegal? Why are you surprised they are "intelligent"? LOL. They are just people.Not enlightened brutes or exotic diversions for the white traveler.People, boring and nice and exasperating. The only "westerner" I have seen who portrays "foreign" people correctly is Joe Sacco. Highly recommended. He just portrays humans as humans, no matter if they are in Bosnia, Canada or Palestine.

mwlp 6y ago

I've been wanting to visit Iran ever since I watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LEgowbzSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LEgowbzSc , where a guy tells the story of him riding a Honda C90 through the country.

how2cflags 6y ago
I fondly remember watching this video a few years ago, so thank you for posting it. As a two wheel enthusiast myself who hasn't had a chance to explore much of the world, I've been actually wanting to try and see if I could do something similar myself once things hopefully go back to normal.
djKianoosh 6y ago
My uncle in Iran has a ton of videos and photos from years of doing custom tours throughout the region. In case you really want to take the trip, you might get some good ideas here: https://soroosh-travels.com/adventurous-tours-in-iran-nature-tours-in-iran/ https://soroosh-travels.com/adventurous-tours-in-iran-nature...
- nickt 6y ago
  Wow - the bike stuff looks amazing. The problem with travel - travel begets travel...
nickt 6y ago
Thanks - not seen that. Extra points for the Noel Edmonds!
omk 6y ago
This guy has a video on India. And as an Indian, it gave me fresh perspective on my own country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPne-q4ynts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPne-q4ynts Spoiler alert: not at all positive.
- breitling 6y ago
  Oh man, that was some video. Thanks for sharing.

Arubis 6y ago

Curious: have you found your sentiment to be unpopular here historically? As framed, it seems perfectly reasonable. Plenty of nations full of wonderful people with rich cultures are run by polarizing politicians.

nickt 6y ago
I agree with that. Within a couple of hours of being back in the US, at dinner, folks were disagreeing with me over things I'd seen with my own eyes in the previous week. I've talked about it a lot at events, and there's often a feeling like I'm saying something that goes against the grain, or at least the narrative, and I must be wrong. A handful of folks always hang around and talk in more detail. I love talking to them.
- EB-Barrington 6y ago
  Hi, I think we have similar interests in travel (80 countries, many visits to Iran!). I lead tours in Iran, you may find this interesting: at the end of each tour, I warn my guests that when they return to their own countries, a large proportion of their friends/families just won't believe any of their Iran stories. Personally, it took my mother several years to believe me that Iran was safe for tourists. Each time I returned, she would say something like "well, you were lucky because I heard on the news that Iran was dangerous". People still don't believe me, and I've been coming and going to Iran for about 8 years. Iran does really attract the best tourists: people with a sense of adventure, no crippling fear of the unknown, and a love of humanity.

voldacar 6y ago

I'm curious since you call it the most western of the eastern countries - about what percentage of the population speaks at least some English? How hard would it be to just show up as a foreigner with no knowledge of the language and do stuff like get directions, book a hotel/apartment, etc?

nickt 6y ago
I have no idea of the percentage of English speakers, but I didn't have a problem. This Quora answer [1] mentions that younger people are more likely to speak English, and I saw that but the interactions with middle-aged people was OK too. There's usually a way to get by. With the professional class there, their conversational English was excellent. [1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-speak-English-in-Iran https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-speak-English-in-Iran

tptacek 6y ago

I'm not sure why this would be unpopular. Iran is the place I would most like to visit in the world. The politics are complicated (I'm American), which sucks, but the attraction to the country, and the culture, seems obvious.

rado 6y ago

Yes, everyone who has visited, has loved it. https://www.rado.bg/?s=Iran https://www.rado.bg/?s=Iran

globular-toast 6y ago

It sounds like you liked Iranians because they were more similar to you than you thought they were. That doesn't sound particularly mind blowing.

srean 6y ago

Lack of popularity in US ? I have had most wonderful interaction with Irani people and would love to visit.

bloak 6y ago

I once read an interview with an experienced travel writer in which one of the questions was something like: Which is the most interesting country to visit? The answer was something like: Perhaps France, but that's too boring and obvious an answer; if not France, then Iran.

yyyk 6y ago

It's a wonderful country, the problem is that the propensity of its regime to take hostages by arresting tourists for trumped-up felonies. e.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/10/australia/kylie-moore-gilbert-iran-australia-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/10/australia/kylie-moore-gil... https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-learned-in-an-iranian-prison-11614200732 https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-learned-in-an-iranian-pr...

EB-Barrington 6y ago
Your comment is a great example of what I have noticed for many years now, and may be helpful for anyone with an interest in reading about Iran: Whenever am article about Iran is written, no matter what the topic (in this case, simply Iranian music), if the article paints something about Iran in a positive light there will be a comment regarding either: a) terrorism b) homosexuality c) tourist hostages These comments are almost exclusively written by Iranian expats, children of Iranian expats, Israeli's, or people who have never been to Iran. Almost always, the comments are provably wrong, blown out of a proportion, or define Iran by standards that are not applied to other countries. Iran is the best country on the planet to be a tourist in, like another poster on this thread I have also visited around 80 countries, and returned to Iran countless times.
- yyyk 6y ago
  The GP explicitly suggested visiting. Once the issue was mentioned, it was fair and useful to remind people of the risks of being held hostage. I wouldn't have piped in if it wasn't mentioned. I assume good faith and hope others return the favour, so I won't be backhandedly blaming people for running a campaign. It's an open forum, not a social bubble, we should expect to find people with different opinions here. Some of them are even wrong on the internet!
  - EB-Barrington 6y ago
    Just trying to spread the word that whenever Iran is mentioned positively, people will always, without fail, mention blown out of proportion things like the "risk" of visiting Iran (when the risk of visiting, say, Tehran as a tourist is measurably and quantifiably lower than say, visiting Chicago). Cheers, all in good faith here.

2wrist 6y ago

Sounds like you had a great trip!! I sued to hang out on motorbike forums and I remember that it seemd that the two places people raved about travelling through were Iran and Syria. It is a funny world. BTW the BBC last year did a series by the awesome Samira Ahmed called the Art of Persia. It is stunning.

Alkhwarizmi 6y ago

What a beautiful description!! Thanks for taking me back to my childhood memories, I personally hail from Azerbaijan but Zendebad Iran!