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> - Your commute is sufficiently short > - You have facilities to shower and dress at work > - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work You can a

by imgabe 6y ago

> - Your commute is sufficiently short > - You have facilities to shower and dress at work > - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work You can address these by planning where you live and work to make it so. These are not immutable facts of nature you have no control over. If your work doesn't have a shower, maybe a nearby gym does. > - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo There are solutions for transporting kids on bikes. Unless your job is to transport cargo, how often do you need to transport sizeable cargo? Most people are not bringing a refrigerator or something with them on their daily commute. If the switch to biking only works for the 95% of people whose job doesn't require hauling around large pieces of equipment with them everywhere all the time, then that is still a huge win. > - Weather is sufficiently good Or your clothes are sufficiently good > - You're sufficiently healthy Bike every day and you will become healthy

msla 6y ago
> You can address these by planning where you live and work to make it so. Yes. We can all afford to move to a dense urban center such that we'll never have to carry a few week's worth of groceries, or enough clothes for the next school year, or anything else which is hard to transport on a bike. Roads (streets, really) are always in good condition, and never icy or that special condition where there's a layer of ice with a thin layer of loose snow on top. Winds never gust to 70 mph, because it would be unseemly for a proud cyclist to fight a headwind on badly-plowed streets. > Or your clothes are sufficiently good I still idly wonder what clothing is equal to the task of a whiteout blizzard.
- imgabe 6y ago
  By definition, you would only have to get a few weeks worth of groceries once every few weeks. Do you need to drive alone in your car every single day because you need to get groceries once a month? > whiteout blizzard Why the hell are you driving anywhere in a whiteout blizzard? Stay home. You don’t need to go into the office and update the TPS report during a blizzard. A blizzard happens maybe once every one or two years. You need to drive on a sunny day in May because sometimes a blizzard happens? That makes no sense. If you live somewhere that whiteout blizzards are a year-round everyday occurrence, maybe consider a dogsled as an alternative to driving.
  - msla 6y ago
    > By definition, you would only have to get a few weeks worth of groceries once every few weeks. Do you need to drive alone in your car every single day because you need to get groceries once a month? This thread is about giving up the car. Entirely. > Why the hell are you driving anywhere in a whiteout blizzard? Shit. Happens. Ideally, emergencies would never happen. Still have to prepare for the less-than-ideal.
    - imgabe 6y ago
      > This thread is about giving up the car. Entirely. No, it's not. I never claimed that. Having biking as an option doesn't mean you're never allowed to touch a car again. This may shock and dismay you, but it is possible to have multiple viable alternatives for transportation. Bike when it's convenient. You'll probably get to enjoy it and seek out more ways to bike once you discover how good it feels and how nice it is to not have to worry about parking. If a situation arises where a car is truly necessary, then use a car. I'd estimate for most people probably 90% of car trips could be replaced if they lived somewhere more bike and pedestrian friendly. That would be a huge win for the environment. The other upshot is that if everyone does that, then when you do need to use a car, or for people who are, say, disabled and really can't bike, then the roads are much emptier and driving is more pleasant.
perrygeo 6y ago
> "planning where you live" Not too many people can make that decision on the sole basis of their preferred mode of transport. The rational decision for most people is "live where you live because you have things keeping you there" - good, bad, job, family, friends, responsibilities, or otherwise. Given the choice between a) driving 25 miles for work everyday and keeping the status quo versus b) uprooting your family, changing jobs, and risking your savings to move to a new city ... so you can have the benefit of riding or walking to work? These decisions don't happen in a bubble, there are tradeoffs. Sadly transport is rarely considered as one of them. The car is a convenient default. And while many people might consider riding or walking to work, they aren't going to unless systematic changes are in place to really tip that balance towards an urban/cycling lifestyle that's viable for more people. Infrastructure, bike lanes, shower and bike lock facilities, etc. sure those might help. But the real issue is that most adults (in America at least) are stretched so thin on time, forced by economic realities to take on multiple jobs and responsibilities that effectively makes owning a car a requirement to navigate the suburban hellscape safely and quickly. To recap, things that have an impact and will help cities become vibrant net-zero communities - Economic reform so people can afford decent bike gear or a few extra hours for riding and maintenance - Cycling infrastructure so people feel safe and don't stink at work - Rebuilding entire city centers so people can do life without a car - Empathy towards people who still need to rely on a car because the transition to the above will take time Things that will be completely counter-productive and discourage people from engaging with cities - Shaming everyone into your particular brand of urban cycling lifestyle because you think it would be good for them and they should just "make it so".
- imgabe 6y ago
  It’s not about shaming people, it’s just about pointing out possibilities and offering solutions. Whenever this topic comes up people love to bring up contrived edge cases and dismiss biking completely. “It doesn’t work if you have an emergency during a blizzard, so therefore you should never bike” “It doesn’t work for a single mother with three jobs so nobody should do it” “We haven’t completely rebuilt the entire urban infrastructure into a biking utopia and achieved perfect economic justice so therefore nobody can bike” Nonsense. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Not every single person needs to bike and even those that do don’t need to bike all the time for every trip. That doesn’t mean there isn’t tons of low-hanging fruit to turn lots of bike trips into car trips.

by imgabe 6y ago

msla 6y ago

> You can address these by planning where you live and work to make it so. Yes. We can all afford to move to a dense urban center such that we'll never have to carry a few week's worth of groceries, or enough clothes for the next school year, or anything else which is hard to transport on a bike. Roads (streets, really) are always in good condition, and never icy or that special condition where there's a layer of ice with a thin layer of loose snow on top. Winds never gust to 70 mph, because it would be unseemly for a proud cyclist to fight a headwind on badly-plowed streets. > Or your clothes are sufficiently good I still idly wonder what clothing is equal to the task of a whiteout blizzard.

imgabe 6y ago
By definition, you would only have to get a few weeks worth of groceries once every few weeks. Do you need to drive alone in your car every single day because you need to get groceries once a month? > whiteout blizzard Why the hell are you driving anywhere in a whiteout blizzard? Stay home. You don’t need to go into the office and update the TPS report during a blizzard. A blizzard happens maybe once every one or two years. You need to drive on a sunny day in May because sometimes a blizzard happens? That makes no sense. If you live somewhere that whiteout blizzards are a year-round everyday occurrence, maybe consider a dogsled as an alternative to driving.
- msla 6y ago
  > By definition, you would only have to get a few weeks worth of groceries once every few weeks. Do you need to drive alone in your car every single day because you need to get groceries once a month? This thread is about giving up the car. Entirely. > Why the hell are you driving anywhere in a whiteout blizzard? Shit. Happens. Ideally, emergencies would never happen. Still have to prepare for the less-than-ideal.
  - imgabe 6y ago
    > This thread is about giving up the car. Entirely. No, it's not. I never claimed that. Having biking as an option doesn't mean you're never allowed to touch a car again. This may shock and dismay you, but it is possible to have multiple viable alternatives for transportation. Bike when it's convenient. You'll probably get to enjoy it and seek out more ways to bike once you discover how good it feels and how nice it is to not have to worry about parking. If a situation arises where a car is truly necessary, then use a car. I'd estimate for most people probably 90% of car trips could be replaced if they lived somewhere more bike and pedestrian friendly. That would be a huge win for the environment. The other upshot is that if everyone does that, then when you do need to use a car, or for people who are, say, disabled and really can't bike, then the roads are much emptier and driving is more pleasant.

perrygeo 6y ago

> "planning where you live" Not too many people can make that decision on the sole basis of their preferred mode of transport. The rational decision for most people is "live where you live because you have things keeping you there" - good, bad, job, family, friends, responsibilities, or otherwise. Given the choice between a) driving 25 miles for work everyday and keeping the status quo versus b) uprooting your family, changing jobs, and risking your savings to move to a new city ... so you can have the benefit of riding or walking to work? These decisions don't happen in a bubble, there are tradeoffs. Sadly transport is rarely considered as one of them. The car is a convenient default. And while many people might consider riding or walking to work, they aren't going to unless systematic changes are in place to really tip that balance towards an urban/cycling lifestyle that's viable for more people. Infrastructure, bike lanes, shower and bike lock facilities, etc. sure those might help. But the real issue is that most adults (in America at least) are stretched so thin on time, forced by economic realities to take on multiple jobs and responsibilities that effectively makes owning a car a requirement to navigate the suburban hellscape safely and quickly. To recap, things that have an impact and will help cities become vibrant net-zero communities - Economic reform so people can afford decent bike gear or a few extra hours for riding and maintenance - Cycling infrastructure so people feel safe and don't stink at work - Rebuilding entire city centers so people can do life without a car - Empathy towards people who still need to rely on a car because the transition to the above will take time Things that will be completely counter-productive and discourage people from engaging with cities - Shaming everyone into your particular brand of urban cycling lifestyle because you think it would be good for them and they should just "make it so".

imgabe 6y ago
It’s not about shaming people, it’s just about pointing out possibilities and offering solutions. Whenever this topic comes up people love to bring up contrived edge cases and dismiss biking completely. “It doesn’t work if you have an emergency during a blizzard, so therefore you should never bike” “It doesn’t work for a single mother with three jobs so nobody should do it” “We haven’t completely rebuilt the entire urban infrastructure into a biking utopia and achieved perfect economic justice so therefore nobody can bike” Nonsense. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Not every single person needs to bike and even those that do don’t need to bike all the time for every trip. That doesn’t mean there isn’t tons of low-hanging fruit to turn lots of bike trips into car trips.