4 ms·

> overwhelmingly those drugs aren't used or even approved for use in medicine and never have been I just went to the Wikipedia pages for Dianabol and Trenbolon

by nsajko 6y ago

> overwhelmingly those drugs aren't used or even approved for use in medicine and never have been I just went to the Wikipedia pages for Dianabol and Trenbolone, and it so happens that both substances were, in fact, used in medicine, but not any more. Well, in case of Trenbolone some kind of derivative or related substance was used medicinally it seems: trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metandienone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metandienone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenbolone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trenbolone Also, if you're trying to say that anabolics are too harmful for anybody to use them, you're wrong. E.g., testosterone is used for all kinds of conditions, and would be used even more if not for the "fear" of it being used off-label: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(medication) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(patch) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(patch) The other anabolics could likewise be used in a healthy manner (such that the beneficial effects outweigh the side effects) in certain cases, here's one study: https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/11/5108/2849115 https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/11/5108/2849115 In general I'd say these drugs fall into the same space as many psychoactive drugs, they were presumably banned so that certain subcultures could be criminalized and stigmatized (not that this stops all the body builders and actors and police officers from getting their AAS anyway), with the excuse that they have harmful side effects. This argument is irrational and based on an appeal to emotion, it ignores that drugs (like any other technology) can be both abused and used for good. > The broscientist bodybuilders are wrong about almost everything they think they know about performance enhancing drugs. I don't disagree, but, for the sake of the discussion, could you give an example?

bedobi 6y ago
Granted, Dianabol and Trenbolone were both approved for a time, but neither was ever really in meaningful widespread use for any legitimate medical purpose, which is in no small part why they are no longer approved. And there are lots of performance enhancing drugs that have straight up never been used at all or even approved for use. As far as anabolic steroids go the only one that is in relatively widespread legitimate use is testosterone (and even then, there's no doubt some people who go on TRT don't truly need to) and maybe Anavar for very niche conditions like burn victims and people with muscle wasting etc. As for how wrong broscientists are, some of the most obvious ones are how high they think the doses need to be, how they combine steroids from the same branch of the family tree for a "cycle", how they switch steroids halfway through a "cycle", how they think SHBG and estrogen are bad and deliberately wipe them out using ancillary drugs, how they think milk thistle and other nonsense supplements will "protect the liver", how bad their understanding of the HPTA and "PCT" is etc etc. I'm all for people being allowed to use many drugs that are currently illegal, but I also think both for recreational and performance enhancing drugs, there's a lot of people who think they know enough about them and that they're making informed choices knowing about the risks etc, but actually don't, and end up making preventable mistakes with potentially very severe consequences for their health and lives.
- perardi 6y ago
  As far as anabolic steroids go the only one that is in relatively widespread legitimate use is testosterone A minor nitpick: I believe deca is actually used, sparingly, but in the real world, for legit medical purposes. Namely anemia. (Though I do know at least one friend who got a “legitimate” prescription for “hypogonadism”, because that particular clinic will do whatever you want.) https://www.drugs.com/uk/deca-durabolin-50mg-ml-injection-leaflet.html https://www.drugs.com/uk/deca-durabolin-50mg-ml-injection-le... how they think SHBG and estrogen are bad and deliberately wipe them out using ancillary drugs Now this, this is ubiquitous, and a terrible broscience idea. Tanking estrogen in males? Bad. Bad bad bad. Bad for the mind, bad for the heart, literally.
- femiagbabiaka 6y ago
  A lot of the bad common knowledge is being stomped out, often on YouTube ironically. MorePlatesMoreDates is one of the best channels for this brand of modern better broscience.

by nsajko 6y ago

bedobi 6y ago

Granted, Dianabol and Trenbolone were both approved for a time, but neither was ever really in meaningful widespread use for any legitimate medical purpose, which is in no small part why they are no longer approved. And there are lots of performance enhancing drugs that have straight up never been used at all or even approved for use. As far as anabolic steroids go the only one that is in relatively widespread legitimate use is testosterone (and even then, there's no doubt some people who go on TRT don't truly need to) and maybe Anavar for very niche conditions like burn victims and people with muscle wasting etc. As for how wrong broscientists are, some of the most obvious ones are how high they think the doses need to be, how they combine steroids from the same branch of the family tree for a "cycle", how they switch steroids halfway through a "cycle", how they think SHBG and estrogen are bad and deliberately wipe them out using ancillary drugs, how they think milk thistle and other nonsense supplements will "protect the liver", how bad their understanding of the HPTA and "PCT" is etc etc. I'm all for people being allowed to use many drugs that are currently illegal, but I also think both for recreational and performance enhancing drugs, there's a lot of people who think they know enough about them and that they're making informed choices knowing about the risks etc, but actually don't, and end up making preventable mistakes with potentially very severe consequences for their health and lives.

perardi 6y ago
As far as anabolic steroids go the only one that is in relatively widespread legitimate use is testosterone A minor nitpick: I believe deca is actually used, sparingly, but in the real world, for legit medical purposes. Namely anemia. (Though I do know at least one friend who got a “legitimate” prescription for “hypogonadism”, because that particular clinic will do whatever you want.) https://www.drugs.com/uk/deca-durabolin-50mg-ml-injection-leaflet.html https://www.drugs.com/uk/deca-durabolin-50mg-ml-injection-le... how they think SHBG and estrogen are bad and deliberately wipe them out using ancillary drugs Now this, this is ubiquitous, and a terrible broscience idea. Tanking estrogen in males? Bad. Bad bad bad. Bad for the mind, bad for the heart, literally.
femiagbabiaka 6y ago
A lot of the bad common knowledge is being stomped out, often on YouTube ironically. MorePlatesMoreDates is one of the best channels for this brand of modern better broscience.