5 ms·

“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back with regret and astonishment at

“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back with regret and astonishment at how stupid and irresponsible an idea it was. Deliberate inhalation of hormone-disrupting, liver-abusing, likely carcinogenic poisons, all in the name of smelling like a pine forest glade. Inane.

grumpyautist 6y ago
And not just doing it the more rational way, by soaking something porus with dilute alpha pinene
sokoloff 6y ago
I’d argue the other three at least have highly functional qualities and are likely the best functioning alternatives (on at least some dimensions) at the time of introduction in a way/to a degree that air fresheners are not. A pot on the stove with lemon, vanilla, or cinnamon or some actual flowers/pine seem to be perfectly reasonable substitutes for the air fresheners.
- benregenspan 6y ago
  As long as the stove isn't a gas stove, since that's probably another one we can add to the list of things that we'll likely look back on with regret :)
  - Hnaomyiph 6y ago
    While I agree that gas stoves put out more VOCs than most people would imagine, the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years, gives testament to the idea that it can’t really be /that/ detrimental to human health. Sure it would be better without them, but I’d imagine that the health gains would be marginal at best.
    - dnndev 6y ago
      Its the compounding of toxins... just 80 years ago before air conditioners most people had the windows open and with so many people working inside all day... most homes are toxic. Open your windows people - get some fresh air (hopefully where you live).
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      The counter argument to this is that there are so many health conditions that are getting increasingly bad which we have no explanation for since so many things changed at the same time.
    - tdeck 6y ago
      Wood smoke is actually pretty bad for your lungs. It's a known carcinogen, although not quite as bad as coal: https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228
    - DanBC 6y ago
      > the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years Cooking inside using wood kills a lot of people each year. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a... > Around 3 billion people cook using polluting open fires or simple stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. > Each year, close to 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to household air pollution from inefficient cooking practices using polluting stoves paired with solid fuels and kerosene. > Household air pollution causes noncommunicable diseases including stroke, ischaemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer. > Close to half of deaths due to pneumonia among children under 5 years of age are caused by particulate matter (soot) inhaled from household air pollution.
- voldacar 6y ago
  Agreed. Asbestos is a wonder material that the world is unironically worse-off without. To be fair, putting it in brake pads which get worn down into dust probably wasn't a great idea...
  - SkyPuncher 6y ago
    I'm curious what you feel is a good use for asbestos? As far as I'm concerned, the fact that it may or may not be in any house I own is a huge problem. It makes renovation and remodeling a huge liability.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      In the US, it should not be in any newer house since the 1990s or even the 1980s. http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/ http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/
    - voldacar 6y ago
      Its thermal insulation/fireproofing properties are incredible, it's basically a material out of science fiction. A few years ago I acquired a pair of asbestos gloves at a flea market. They are absolutely mind blowing. I have held glowing red-hot pieces of metal for upwards of a minute at a time with my hands only feeling mildly warm. You might be able to do this with certain welding gloves, but they would be thick like oven mitts, leaving you with basically no dexterity. These asbestos gloves are no thicker than ordinary leather work gloves, are lightweight and permit your full range of motion. As an experiment to see how far I could push them, I poured a bit of molten lead over them (my hand was not inside this time) and it just beaded up and wicked off, like water does on a waxy or oily surface. If my hand was inside, I'm sure it would have been fine. I'd even go so far as to say that you'd probably be fine if you submerged your hand in molten metal, since the pores in the woven asbestos are so small that the metal would probably be prevented from seeping in by its surface tension. All that said, they probably do release microscopic fibers into the air, so I wear an N95 when using them and store them in a sealed ziploc bag. edit: check this out too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ
- adrianN 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if chronic inhalation of natural lemon or pine scent were unhealthy too. Limonene can cause skin irritation for example. Plants generally evolved essential oils to avoid being eaten, it kind of makes sense that inhaling them might be unhealthy.
koolba 6y ago
Where will fabric softener end up?
- hellbannedguy 6y ago
  Or dish soap? For the first time I noticed Dawn Dish soap listing its 10 plus ingredients in clear print on the front label. I assumed it was lawyers being cautious. I do rinse better now than in the past though. (Dawn soap is a great degreaser. I like the product, but I am reading labels more these days.)
- tdeck 6y ago
  Somehow I grew up in a family that never used fabric softener, or those little disposable dryer sheets. And I still don't understand the point. Fabric is already soft - "static cling" hasn't been a problem my entire life. What are these things for?
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    Fabric can end up hard and abrasive if washed in hard water and left to air-dry. Fabric softeners offset that to some extent, although in soft water areas or for people who tumble dry their clothes, I don't see any benefits.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    I bet you live in a warm climate. I grew up in the US south. And now, after living years in California, I have noticed that static cling is not really a thing here either. I'm not sure if cooler weather or higher humidity had to do with it, or just the type of clothes that you wear in cooler climates, but I distinctly remember having a lot of trouble peeling different articles of clothing apart after taking them out of the dryer and just getting shocked all over the place. If you took clothes out of the dryer in the dark, the room would light up dimly from all the sparks flying.
    - tdeck 6y ago
      I grew up in Pennsylvania and it certainly got dry and staticky in the house - I've been shocked by many a door knob and now that you mention it I did sometimes have to peel certain articles apart (e.g. fleece) when taking them out of the dryer. I guess I never thought of that as a problem that needed to be solved though.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back... If asbestos and lead are any indication I'm sure joe blow in 20yr will be writing long Reddit and HN rants about how <insert carcinogenic air freshener chemical you shouldn't atomize in an enclosed space> is nothing but pure evil and the CEOs of <insert company> should be lined up and shot for using it in <insert industrial application where there are so many more poisonous contaminants about that a little lead in your bearing surfaces or asbestos in your insulating materials doesn't make the environment any more hazardous>.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  And if it turns out that those CEOs had secret, buried research indicating toxicity, and continued to sell and even funded bogus research to counteract the legitimate stuff, then it will be justified.

grumpyautist 6y ago

And not just doing it the more rational way, by soaking something porus with dilute alpha pinene

sokoloff 6y ago

I’d argue the other three at least have highly functional qualities and are likely the best functioning alternatives (on at least some dimensions) at the time of introduction in a way/to a degree that air fresheners are not. A pot on the stove with lemon, vanilla, or cinnamon or some actual flowers/pine seem to be perfectly reasonable substitutes for the air fresheners.

benregenspan 6y ago
As long as the stove isn't a gas stove, since that's probably another one we can add to the list of things that we'll likely look back on with regret :)
- Hnaomyiph 6y ago
  While I agree that gas stoves put out more VOCs than most people would imagine, the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years, gives testament to the idea that it can’t really be /that/ detrimental to human health. Sure it would be better without them, but I’d imagine that the health gains would be marginal at best.
  - dnndev 6y ago
    Its the compounding of toxins... just 80 years ago before air conditioners most people had the windows open and with so many people working inside all day... most homes are toxic. Open your windows people - get some fresh air (hopefully where you live).
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
    The counter argument to this is that there are so many health conditions that are getting increasingly bad which we have no explanation for since so many things changed at the same time.
  - tdeck 6y ago
    Wood smoke is actually pretty bad for your lungs. It's a known carcinogen, although not quite as bad as coal: https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228
  - DanBC 6y ago
    > the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years Cooking inside using wood kills a lot of people each year. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a... > Around 3 billion people cook using polluting open fires or simple stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. > Each year, close to 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to household air pollution from inefficient cooking practices using polluting stoves paired with solid fuels and kerosene. > Household air pollution causes noncommunicable diseases including stroke, ischaemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer. > Close to half of deaths due to pneumonia among children under 5 years of age are caused by particulate matter (soot) inhaled from household air pollution.
voldacar 6y ago
Agreed. Asbestos is a wonder material that the world is unironically worse-off without. To be fair, putting it in brake pads which get worn down into dust probably wasn't a great idea...
- SkyPuncher 6y ago
  I'm curious what you feel is a good use for asbestos? As far as I'm concerned, the fact that it may or may not be in any house I own is a huge problem. It makes renovation and remodeling a huge liability.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    In the US, it should not be in any newer house since the 1990s or even the 1980s. http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/ http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/
  - voldacar 6y ago
    Its thermal insulation/fireproofing properties are incredible, it's basically a material out of science fiction. A few years ago I acquired a pair of asbestos gloves at a flea market. They are absolutely mind blowing. I have held glowing red-hot pieces of metal for upwards of a minute at a time with my hands only feeling mildly warm. You might be able to do this with certain welding gloves, but they would be thick like oven mitts, leaving you with basically no dexterity. These asbestos gloves are no thicker than ordinary leather work gloves, are lightweight and permit your full range of motion. As an experiment to see how far I could push them, I poured a bit of molten lead over them (my hand was not inside this time) and it just beaded up and wicked off, like water does on a waxy or oily surface. If my hand was inside, I'm sure it would have been fine. I'd even go so far as to say that you'd probably be fine if you submerged your hand in molten metal, since the pores in the woven asbestos are so small that the metal would probably be prevented from seeping in by its surface tension. All that said, they probably do release microscopic fibers into the air, so I wear an N95 when using them and store them in a sealed ziploc bag. edit: check this out too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ
adrianN 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if chronic inhalation of natural lemon or pine scent were unhealthy too. Limonene can cause skin irritation for example. Plants generally evolved essential oils to avoid being eaten, it kind of makes sense that inhaling them might be unhealthy.

koolba 6y ago

Where will fabric softener end up?

hellbannedguy 6y ago
Or dish soap? For the first time I noticed Dawn Dish soap listing its 10 plus ingredients in clear print on the front label. I assumed it was lawyers being cautious. I do rinse better now than in the past though. (Dawn soap is a great degreaser. I like the product, but I am reading labels more these days.)
tdeck 6y ago
Somehow I grew up in a family that never used fabric softener, or those little disposable dryer sheets. And I still don't understand the point. Fabric is already soft - "static cling" hasn't been a problem my entire life. What are these things for?
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Fabric can end up hard and abrasive if washed in hard water and left to air-dry. Fabric softeners offset that to some extent, although in soft water areas or for people who tumble dry their clothes, I don't see any benefits.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  I bet you live in a warm climate. I grew up in the US south. And now, after living years in California, I have noticed that static cling is not really a thing here either. I'm not sure if cooler weather or higher humidity had to do with it, or just the type of clothes that you wear in cooler climates, but I distinctly remember having a lot of trouble peeling different articles of clothing apart after taking them out of the dryer and just getting shocked all over the place. If you took clothes out of the dryer in the dark, the room would light up dimly from all the sparks flying.
  - tdeck 6y ago
    I grew up in Pennsylvania and it certainly got dry and staticky in the house - I've been shocked by many a door knob and now that you mention it I did sometimes have to peel certain articles apart (e.g. fleece) when taking them out of the dryer. I guess I never thought of that as a problem that needed to be solved though.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back... If asbestos and lead are any indication I'm sure joe blow in 20yr will be writing long Reddit and HN rants about how <insert carcinogenic air freshener chemical you shouldn't atomize in an enclosed space> is nothing but pure evil and the CEOs of <insert company> should be lined up and shot for using it in <insert industrial application where there are so many more poisonous contaminants about that a little lead in your bearing surfaces or asbestos in your insulating materials doesn't make the environment any more hazardous>.

jjeaff 6y ago
And if it turns out that those CEOs had secret, buried research indicating toxicity, and continued to sell and even funded bogus research to counteract the legitimate stuff, then it will be justified.