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The Health Hazards of Plug-In Air Fresheners (2017)

98 points by tentacleuno 6y ago

tentacleuno 6y ago
Oops, left out a word in the title. The woes of manually coping text...
moistly 6y ago
“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back with regret and astonishment at how stupid and irresponsible an idea it was. Deliberate inhalation of hormone-disrupting, liver-abusing, likely carcinogenic poisons, all in the name of smelling like a pine forest glade. Inane.
- grumpyautist 6y ago
  And not just doing it the more rational way, by soaking something porus with dilute alpha pinene
- sokoloff 6y ago
  I’d argue the other three at least have highly functional qualities and are likely the best functioning alternatives (on at least some dimensions) at the time of introduction in a way/to a degree that air fresheners are not. A pot on the stove with lemon, vanilla, or cinnamon or some actual flowers/pine seem to be perfectly reasonable substitutes for the air fresheners.
  - benregenspan 6y ago
    As long as the stove isn't a gas stove, since that's probably another one we can add to the list of things that we'll likely look back on with regret :)
    - Hnaomyiph 6y ago
      While I agree that gas stoves put out more VOCs than most people would imagine, the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years, gives testament to the idea that it can’t really be /that/ detrimental to human health. Sure it would be better without them, but I’d imagine that the health gains would be marginal at best.
      - dnndev 6y ago
        Its the compounding of toxins... just 80 years ago before air conditioners most people had the windows open and with so many people working inside all day... most homes are toxic. Open your windows people - get some fresh air (hopefully where you live).
      - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
        The counter argument to this is that there are so many health conditions that are getting increasingly bad which we have no explanation for since so many things changed at the same time.
      - tdeck 6y ago
        Wood smoke is actually pretty bad for your lungs. It's a known carcinogen, although not quite as bad as coal: https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228
      - DanBC 6y ago
        > the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years Cooking inside using wood kills a lot of people each year. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a... > Around 3 billion people cook using polluting open fires or simple stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. > Each year, close to 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to household air pollution from inefficient cooking practices using polluting stoves paired with solid fuels and kerosene. > Household air pollution causes noncommunicable diseases including stroke, ischaemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer. > Close to half of deaths due to pneumonia among children under 5 years of age are caused by particulate matter (soot) inhaled from household air pollution.
  - voldacar 6y ago
    Agreed. Asbestos is a wonder material that the world is unironically worse-off without. To be fair, putting it in brake pads which get worn down into dust probably wasn't a great idea...
    - SkyPuncher 6y ago
      I'm curious what you feel is a good use for asbestos? As far as I'm concerned, the fact that it may or may not be in any house I own is a huge problem. It makes renovation and remodeling a huge liability.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        In the US, it should not be in any newer house since the 1990s or even the 1980s. http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/ http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/
      - voldacar 6y ago
        Its thermal insulation/fireproofing properties are incredible, it's basically a material out of science fiction. A few years ago I acquired a pair of asbestos gloves at a flea market. They are absolutely mind blowing. I have held glowing red-hot pieces of metal for upwards of a minute at a time with my hands only feeling mildly warm. You might be able to do this with certain welding gloves, but they would be thick like oven mitts, leaving you with basically no dexterity. These asbestos gloves are no thicker than ordinary leather work gloves, are lightweight and permit your full range of motion. As an experiment to see how far I could push them, I poured a bit of molten lead over them (my hand was not inside this time) and it just beaded up and wicked off, like water does on a waxy or oily surface. If my hand was inside, I'm sure it would have been fine. I'd even go so far as to say that you'd probably be fine if you submerged your hand in molten metal, since the pores in the woven asbestos are so small that the metal would probably be prevented from seeping in by its surface tension. All that said, they probably do release microscopic fibers into the air, so I wear an N95 when using them and store them in a sealed ziploc bag. edit: check this out too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ
  - adrianN 6y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if chronic inhalation of natural lemon or pine scent were unhealthy too. Limonene can cause skin irritation for example. Plants generally evolved essential oils to avoid being eaten, it kind of makes sense that inhaling them might be unhealthy.
- koolba 6y ago
  Where will fabric softener end up?
  - hellbannedguy 6y ago
    Or dish soap? For the first time I noticed Dawn Dish soap listing its 10 plus ingredients in clear print on the front label. I assumed it was lawyers being cautious. I do rinse better now than in the past though. (Dawn soap is a great degreaser. I like the product, but I am reading labels more these days.)
  - tdeck 6y ago
    Somehow I grew up in a family that never used fabric softener, or those little disposable dryer sheets. And I still don't understand the point. Fabric is already soft - "static cling" hasn't been a problem my entire life. What are these things for?
    - londons_explore 6y ago
      Fabric can end up hard and abrasive if washed in hard water and left to air-dry. Fabric softeners offset that to some extent, although in soft water areas or for people who tumble dry their clothes, I don't see any benefits.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      I bet you live in a warm climate. I grew up in the US south. And now, after living years in California, I have noticed that static cling is not really a thing here either. I'm not sure if cooler weather or higher humidity had to do with it, or just the type of clothes that you wear in cooler climates, but I distinctly remember having a lot of trouble peeling different articles of clothing apart after taking them out of the dryer and just getting shocked all over the place. If you took clothes out of the dryer in the dark, the room would light up dimly from all the sparks flying.
      - tdeck 6y ago
        I grew up in Pennsylvania and it certainly got dry and staticky in the house - I've been shocked by many a door knob and now that you mention it I did sometimes have to peel certain articles apart (e.g. fleece) when taking them out of the dryer. I guess I never thought of that as a problem that needed to be solved though.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back... If asbestos and lead are any indication I'm sure joe blow in 20yr will be writing long Reddit and HN rants about how <insert carcinogenic air freshener chemical you shouldn't atomize in an enclosed space> is nothing but pure evil and the CEOs of <insert company> should be lined up and shot for using it in <insert industrial application where there are so many more poisonous contaminants about that a little lead in your bearing surfaces or asbestos in your insulating materials doesn't make the environment any more hazardous>.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    And if it turns out that those CEOs had secret, buried research indicating toxicity, and continued to sell and even funded bogus research to counteract the legitimate stuff, then it will be justified.
pcdoodle 6y ago
How about smelly candles? They work pretty well just lighting them for a few minutes a day.
- neolog 6y ago
  Why not just have a clean and well ventilated space?
  - culturestate 6y ago
    I mean, sure, but it’s worth remembering that there are plenty of people who don’t have unilateral control over their living space or who find themselves in other situations where that isn't an immediately practical solution. College kids in dorms, working adults with roommates, residents of cities with bad outdoor air quality, etc.
    - briefcomment 6y ago
      Doesn't mean you need to make the indoor air even worse. You can handle most bad smells by having good habits (taking out the trash, not leaving food sitting around, washing clothes, etc). If it's your house in general, you should probably fix it instead of masking it, because it's probably mold.
      - culturestate 6y ago
        It doesn't matter how good your own habits are if your roommate doesn't share them, for example, and not everyone has the power to quickly change their circumstance. Just saying there's room for a little sympathy here.
    - gav 6y ago
      A $200 air purifier can make a world of difference: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier... (I own a Coway Airmega 200M.) I bought a Temtop monitor to verify if the "smart mode" (where it only runs if the air quality is low): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DHXQXGK/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DHXQXGK/ I live in Los Angeles where the air quality isn't that great and in a rented apartment where I have limited choices. The air purifier made a dramatic difference in the first hour I had it and now it keeps the PM2.5 reading down to around 2-4 with minimal cycling.
dmm 6y ago
The article mentions a study conducted by the Nation Resources Defence Council (NRDC), I think this is the study report with more details, including detected concentrations: https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/airfresheners.pdf https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/airfresheners.pdf
dnh44 6y ago
A similar product in Korea killed quite a lot of people a few years ago. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/14000-people-may-have-killed-south-koreas-toxic-humidifiers/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/14000-people-may...
- post_break 6y ago
  So Korean fan death may not be a thing but this certainly doesn't help.
- CoolGuySteve 6y ago
  I've tried and failed several times to find an ultrasonic humidifier with a basin that's dishwasher safe. It's really amazing to me that "how do you clean this fucking thing?" is such a nebulous concept for the engineers of these devices.
  - alliao 6y ago
    you're supposed to chuck it; not unlike the philips air fryer. disassembly and cleaning it thoroughly takes many hours.
  - tallanvor 6y ago
    Ideally you use distilled water in a humidifier, which should really help to keep it clean. But that can be a pain. I add a small amount of bleach every other time I fill the tank (a few drops - if you can smell it you've added too much) and once a week I empty it out entirely, wipe it down, and let it dry completely. And, of course, if I'm turning it off for longer than 12 hours or so, I empty it out.
- 01100011 6y ago
  The chemical which caused the issue, if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhexamethylene_guanidine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhexamethylene_guanidine
  - pessimizer 6y ago
bootlooped 6y ago
Carbon scrubbers are the healthy, bulletproof solution to eliminating stubborn odors in the home. Not the tiny little activated charcoal sheets that are in some air purifiers, they are too small to do that much, I'm talking about the cylindrical ones made for indoor marijuana grows. I used to live in a small NYC apartment with a cat. You could not smell any pet smell once I got a carbon scrubber going in there. If you get a decent variable speed fan it's going to be no louder than a regular consumer air purifier. If your only concern is odor, it's going to be more cost effective in the long run than an air purifier too.
- fedreserved 6y ago
  The fans can be purchased on ebay cheaply in lots. For the carbon filters the cheapest I've found is growgreenmi.com You can imagine what the site is for
- Zircom 6y ago
  Any recommendations on affordable ones? I love my cats but you are spot on about the smell, I currently use the plug in air fresheners when I have company but take them out as soon as they leave.
  - bootlooped 6y ago
    I like this fan a lot: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07FPFVZTZ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07FPFVZTZ I had a previous speed-controlled fan that had an annoying buzz at low speed. This AC Infinity one is very good though. I would not cheap out on the fan. I had this set on the lowest setting, and also had an outlet timer plugged in so it turned off for several hours in the middle of the night. Conversely I don't think the carbon scrubber itself matters much. I think they're basically fungible commodities. Here is a perfectly fine one: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01731MLFK https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01731MLFK For regular household use (aka not growing marijuana) either 4" or 6" is appropriate. I went with the 6" because I thought it would most likely be quieter than 4" for moving the same amount of air. You just have to make sure you get the same size inline fan and carbon scrubber.
brandonmenc 6y ago
Had a cat that kept going to the vet with kidney problems. Couldn't figure out what the problem was, but eventually tracked it down to the plug-in air freshener next to her perch. Got rid of it and the bloodwork started coming back normal almost instantly.
- computator 6y ago
  Do you recall what specific test was out of normal range? (Was it creatinine, urea, etc.)
  - brandonmenc 6y ago
    I don't, unfortunately.
sokoloff 6y ago
> Natural essential oils, for example, can be used to make safe home scenting products, such as “DIY” scented candles. This sentence comes after a one sentence gap from a paragraph warning that the plug-ins contain volatile organic compounds(VOCs). Natural essential oils also contain VOCs. It’s how you smell them.
- kragen 6y ago
  It might be more accurate to say that natural essential oils are VOCs.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    And the essential comes from the fact that the oils are the essence of the plants(what remains when you boil one for a really long time), not because they are essential for humans...
- astura 6y ago
  Burning candles also releases VOCs (and soot) into the air. My old roommate was a daily candle burner, and the walls in her bedroom ended up absolutely covered in soot after a few years. Not only that, many (but not all) essential oils are very toxic to cats and maybe other pets too - blanketly calling them "safe" is just plain wrong. Like very, very wrong. It's probably not a good idea to diffuse essential oils in general, they are VOCs after all, but it's an especially bad idea if you have pets.
  - rrmm 6y ago
    On top of that, essential oil purity is probably not exactly well regulated. Depending what chemicals are used to do the extraction, there can be nasty stuff left over not to mention adulterants or other random stuff.
- dmos62 6y ago
  Don't use candle essential oil diffusers. Candles burn too hot and burn the things you don't want to burn. There are electricly heated diffusers that warm up the oil to a lower temperature. But, don't use essential oil diffusers if you have pets. Pets can be extremely sensitive to essential oils and some are toxic to some pets while safe to humans. There are ways to treat pets with essential oils, but the process is very delicate. You essentially open a bottle and put it at a distance from your pet. If the pet approaches it himself and shows signs of liking it, you can look into ways of incorporating some of this oil into pet's life, but gently so as to not overwhelm him. For human use, just smell it out of the bottle or rub it on specific points on your body. Look up relevant literature for details. Most important thing is that just by smelling it you can immediately tell if that specific essential oil is good for you. Don't use them just because someone said they're beneficial.
excalibur 6y ago
(2017)
FounderBurr 6y ago
Junk science peddler.
- briefcomment 6y ago
  These things have always been pretty obviously uncomfortable for me to be around, since way before I've come across research like this. Have you considered that your body just doesn't have the capacity to notice it? A poor sense of smell is possible, and is a risk factor for many things.
cassonmars 6y ago
My mother was one of the super skeptical types, so she wouldn’t allow the plug in fresheners in the house (or the spray kind either) — it was open windows, sunlight, and very limited cleaning products. I’m pretty thankful about that skepticism and intend to keep that momentum when I have kids.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  My mum was the same, including with plastic food containers. Turns out those are really bad as well. It’s also amazing how we continue to use products knowing they are toxic.
- clumsysmurf 6y ago
  Your mom was right. Sunlight disinfects rooms too. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181017211703.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181017211703.h...
- hedberg10 6y ago
  My parents consciously moved away from the city and big roads to have their kids. Which I reversed in my infinite 20 something wisdom. If you ever experience a skin condition that seemingly won't go away and is surprisingly painful, you'll get hip to the scam that are cleaning products quite quickly. They can all be made at home, with 3 or 4 ingredients. The supplies will last a lifetime and you don't produce any non recyclable plastic bottles (another scam!).
  - DoingIsLearning 6y ago
    > They can all be made at home, with 3 or 4 ingredients. I've done a few experiments with home made saponification in the past but I never really considered this for other cleaning products. Can you share some resources or experience on this?
    - hedberg10 6y ago
      This is Lisa Bronner of Dr. Bronners which I used as a starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLCBz6JdQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLCBz6JdQI There is also a girl who hasn't used any plastic for years and makes everything herself including beauty products: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuABgFsv5pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuABgFsv5pw Lots on Youtube in general. Again, I do it because I needed to, I don't want to preach or shame.
dnndev 6y ago
Just as toxic if not worse is laundry detergent and especially fabric softener (scented of course). Here is a list of just SOME of the toxic chemicals found in commercial fabric softeners: Alpha Terpineol: can cause central nervous damage and respiratory problems Camphor: causes central nervous disorders, is easily absorbed through skin Chloroform: a carcinogenic neurotoxin preferred by Ted Bundy Benzyl Acetate: linked to pancreatic cancer Benyl Alcohol: respiratory tract irritant Ethanol: on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list, can cause central nervous system disorders Ethyl Acetate: a narcotic on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list Limonene: a known carcinogen that irritates eyes and skin Linalool: causes central nervous system disorders and depresses heart activity
- mindslight 6y ago
  > Ethanol: on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list, can cause central nervous system disorders And with that you've demonstrated that your entire list isn't likely to be grounded in reality.
  - astura 6y ago
    For those that might not know, ethanol is the "alcohol" in "alcoholic beverages."
  - conistonwater 6y ago
    That is technically correct, technically.
- 01100011 6y ago
  Alpha Terpineol is in pine trees. Benzyl Alcohol is in many plants and foods. Ethanol is, well, ethanol. Ethyl Acetate is found in many alcoholic beverages and is a simple ester of ethanol and acetic acid(vinegar). Limonene is orange oil, found in citrus peels. Linalool is found in many spices and flowers. I'm not sure if you're seriously trying to scare people or making a sarcastic 'di-hydrogen monoxide' style joke.
  - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Causality1 6y ago
This article might be completely factually correct but its overall quality is pretty bad. It doesn't tell you whether these chemicals are found in the liquid, in the vapor, or in both. No exploration of what the vaporization process does to these chemicals or whether there are types of plug-in fresheners that don't contain hazardous chemicals. No attempt to quantify what is and isn't a dangerous concentration. If my brother keeps one in his closed bathroom do I need to wake him up to yank it out? If I only have one freshener and it's in the big living room is it safe? Are there any filtration or neutralization methods that let users keep most of the scent while being safer? Then the big question, are scented candles just as bad? This is a kernel of good info but damn it could've been so much better.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  Lots of answers to your questions aren't available. Safe concentrations of many things aren't known for humans, because studying them is very difficult (effects over many decades, ethics problems with experimenting on people)
rentzsch 6y ago
read https://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist https://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist (RIP)
teekert 6y ago
I have always wondered why these things are a allowed to be called "Air Fresheners". They don't make the air fresher, they mask bad odors, so they should be called Air Scenters. I've always felt a bit alone in this but I much prefer a bit of residual faecal scent left by a ventilation system than the heavy blanked smell of an Air "Freshener", I could only imagine what filth it was hiding. These things are the cheap alternative to true fresh(er) air.
- londons_explore 6y ago
  We should call them "Smell blockers" or maybe "Scent blinder"
- gher-shyu3i 6y ago
  Exactly. It's misleading marketing, if not straight out lying.
- Steve44 6y ago
  > They don't make the air fresher, they mask bad odors I read a little while ago there are some which just add scent to mask the smell, but others have a doughnut shaped molecule which captures the smelly molecule. It doesn't 'clean' as such and does nothing to stop the source of the smell though so perhaps calling it masking is correct. I don't know enough about the specific science of cyclodextrin, I've put a couple of links below. https://www.direct365.co.uk/blog/how-air-fresheners-work/ https://www.direct365.co.uk/blog/how-air-fresheners-work/ > The key to odour eliminating air fresheners is a molecule called cyclodextrin. This is a donut shaped molecule suspended in a water carrier. Due to cyclodextrin’s hydrophobic interior, it attracts the odour molecules in the air. As the water dries, the molecules on the interior of the cyclodextrin are encapsulated inside, therefore reducing their volatility and minimising their smell. https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2015/06/take-whiff-chemistry https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2015/06/take-whiff-chemi... > When you spray Febreze the hydrophobic cavity of the β-cyclodextrin traps these volatile, odor causing molecules, preventing the molecules from binding to the odor receptors in your nose
Tabular-Iceberg 6y ago
Here’s yet another much more likely candidate than soy for the so-called “soyboy” phenomenon. It certainly fits with the affluent suburban demographic profile.
dvh 6y ago
I think candles should contain large black and white warning stickers like cigarettes.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  Are the risks and consequences comparable?
  - bregma 6y ago
    Only if you inhale.
  - ryanmercer 6y ago
    Paraffin candles release benzene and toluene at a minimum. Then factor in the amount of soot candles will readily produce when people don't trim the wicks between uses (and cheap candles are sooty no matter what you do) and, yeah.
acvny 6y ago
You don't have to be very smart to figure that out. I get sick only from the slightest smell coming out of those things.
gsjjsjsbsb 6y ago
Glade made me trans. Very insightful

98 points by tentacleuno 6y ago

Oops, left out a word in the title. The woes of manually coping text...

“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back with regret and astonishment at how stupid and irresponsible an idea it was. Deliberate inhalation of hormone-disrupting, liver-abusing, likely carcinogenic poisons, all in the name of smelling like a pine forest glade. Inane.

grumpyautist 6y ago
And not just doing it the more rational way, by soaking something porus with dilute alpha pinene
sokoloff 6y ago
I’d argue the other three at least have highly functional qualities and are likely the best functioning alternatives (on at least some dimensions) at the time of introduction in a way/to a degree that air fresheners are not. A pot on the stove with lemon, vanilla, or cinnamon or some actual flowers/pine seem to be perfectly reasonable substitutes for the air fresheners.
- benregenspan 6y ago
  As long as the stove isn't a gas stove, since that's probably another one we can add to the list of things that we'll likely look back on with regret :)
  - Hnaomyiph 6y ago
    While I agree that gas stoves put out more VOCs than most people would imagine, the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years, gives testament to the idea that it can’t really be /that/ detrimental to human health. Sure it would be better without them, but I’d imagine that the health gains would be marginal at best.
    - dnndev 6y ago
      Its the compounding of toxins... just 80 years ago before air conditioners most people had the windows open and with so many people working inside all day... most homes are toxic. Open your windows people - get some fresh air (hopefully where you live).
    - PurpleFoxy 6y ago
      The counter argument to this is that there are so many health conditions that are getting increasingly bad which we have no explanation for since so many things changed at the same time.
    - tdeck 6y ago
      Wood smoke is actually pretty bad for your lungs. It's a known carcinogen, although not quite as bad as coal: https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228 https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/40/5/1228
    - DanBC 6y ago
      > the fact that humans have been cooking inside on either wood or gas stoves for many hundreds of years Cooking inside using wood kills a lot of people each year. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-air-pollution-and-health https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/household-a... > Around 3 billion people cook using polluting open fires or simple stoves fuelled by kerosene, biomass (wood, animal dung and crop waste) and coal. > Each year, close to 4 million people die prematurely from illness attributable to household air pollution from inefficient cooking practices using polluting stoves paired with solid fuels and kerosene. > Household air pollution causes noncommunicable diseases including stroke, ischaemic heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer. > Close to half of deaths due to pneumonia among children under 5 years of age are caused by particulate matter (soot) inhaled from household air pollution.
- voldacar 6y ago
  Agreed. Asbestos is a wonder material that the world is unironically worse-off without. To be fair, putting it in brake pads which get worn down into dust probably wasn't a great idea...
  - SkyPuncher 6y ago
    I'm curious what you feel is a good use for asbestos? As far as I'm concerned, the fact that it may or may not be in any house I own is a huge problem. It makes renovation and remodeling a huge liability.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      In the US, it should not be in any newer house since the 1990s or even the 1980s. http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/ http://asbestosremovalnow.com/asbestos-banning-timeline/
    - voldacar 6y ago
      Its thermal insulation/fireproofing properties are incredible, it's basically a material out of science fiction. A few years ago I acquired a pair of asbestos gloves at a flea market. They are absolutely mind blowing. I have held glowing red-hot pieces of metal for upwards of a minute at a time with my hands only feeling mildly warm. You might be able to do this with certain welding gloves, but they would be thick like oven mitts, leaving you with basically no dexterity. These asbestos gloves are no thicker than ordinary leather work gloves, are lightweight and permit your full range of motion. As an experiment to see how far I could push them, I poured a bit of molten lead over them (my hand was not inside this time) and it just beaded up and wicked off, like water does on a waxy or oily surface. If my hand was inside, I'm sure it would have been fine. I'd even go so far as to say that you'd probably be fine if you submerged your hand in molten metal, since the pores in the woven asbestos are so small that the metal would probably be prevented from seeping in by its surface tension. All that said, they probably do release microscopic fibers into the air, so I wear an N95 when using them and store them in a sealed ziploc bag. edit: check this out too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuwUXGyWlHQ
- adrianN 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if chronic inhalation of natural lemon or pine scent were unhealthy too. Limonene can cause skin irritation for example. Plants generally evolved essential oils to avoid being eaten, it kind of makes sense that inhaling them might be unhealthy.
koolba 6y ago
Where will fabric softener end up?
- hellbannedguy 6y ago
  Or dish soap? For the first time I noticed Dawn Dish soap listing its 10 plus ingredients in clear print on the front label. I assumed it was lawyers being cautious. I do rinse better now than in the past though. (Dawn soap is a great degreaser. I like the product, but I am reading labels more these days.)
- tdeck 6y ago
  Somehow I grew up in a family that never used fabric softener, or those little disposable dryer sheets. And I still don't understand the point. Fabric is already soft - "static cling" hasn't been a problem my entire life. What are these things for?
  - londons_explore 6y ago
    Fabric can end up hard and abrasive if washed in hard water and left to air-dry. Fabric softeners offset that to some extent, although in soft water areas or for people who tumble dry their clothes, I don't see any benefits.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    I bet you live in a warm climate. I grew up in the US south. And now, after living years in California, I have noticed that static cling is not really a thing here either. I'm not sure if cooler weather or higher humidity had to do with it, or just the type of clothes that you wear in cooler climates, but I distinctly remember having a lot of trouble peeling different articles of clothing apart after taking them out of the dryer and just getting shocked all over the place. If you took clothes out of the dryer in the dark, the room would light up dimly from all the sparks flying.
    - tdeck 6y ago
      I grew up in Pennsylvania and it certainly got dry and staticky in the house - I've been shocked by many a door knob and now that you mention it I did sometimes have to peel certain articles apart (e.g. fleece) when taking them out of the dryer. I guess I never thought of that as a problem that needed to be solved though.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>“Air Fresheners” rank right up there with leaded gas, asbestos brake pads, and coal plants: two decades from now we’ll look back... If asbestos and lead are any indication I'm sure joe blow in 20yr will be writing long Reddit and HN rants about how <insert carcinogenic air freshener chemical you shouldn't atomize in an enclosed space> is nothing but pure evil and the CEOs of <insert company> should be lined up and shot for using it in <insert industrial application where there are so many more poisonous contaminants about that a little lead in your bearing surfaces or asbestos in your insulating materials doesn't make the environment any more hazardous>.
- jjeaff 6y ago
  And if it turns out that those CEOs had secret, buried research indicating toxicity, and continued to sell and even funded bogus research to counteract the legitimate stuff, then it will be justified.

pcdoodle 6y ago

How about smelly candles? They work pretty well just lighting them for a few minutes a day.

neolog 6y ago
Why not just have a clean and well ventilated space?
- culturestate 6y ago
  I mean, sure, but it’s worth remembering that there are plenty of people who don’t have unilateral control over their living space or who find themselves in other situations where that isn't an immediately practical solution. College kids in dorms, working adults with roommates, residents of cities with bad outdoor air quality, etc.
  - briefcomment 6y ago
    Doesn't mean you need to make the indoor air even worse. You can handle most bad smells by having good habits (taking out the trash, not leaving food sitting around, washing clothes, etc). If it's your house in general, you should probably fix it instead of masking it, because it's probably mold.
    - culturestate 6y ago
      It doesn't matter how good your own habits are if your roommate doesn't share them, for example, and not everyone has the power to quickly change their circumstance. Just saying there's room for a little sympathy here.
  - gav 6y ago
    A $200 air purifier can make a world of difference: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air-purifier... (I own a Coway Airmega 200M.) I bought a Temtop monitor to verify if the "smart mode" (where it only runs if the air quality is low): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DHXQXGK/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DHXQXGK/ I live in Los Angeles where the air quality isn't that great and in a rented apartment where I have limited choices. The air purifier made a dramatic difference in the first hour I had it and now it keeps the PM2.5 reading down to around 2-4 with minimal cycling.

dmm 6y ago

The article mentions a study conducted by the Nation Resources Defence Council (NRDC), I think this is the study report with more details, including detected concentrations: https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/airfresheners.pdf https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/airfresheners.pdf

dnh44 6y ago

A similar product in Korea killed quite a lot of people a few years ago. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/14000-people-may-have-killed-south-koreas-toxic-humidifiers/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/14000-people-may...

post_break 6y ago
So Korean fan death may not be a thing but this certainly doesn't help.
CoolGuySteve 6y ago
I've tried and failed several times to find an ultrasonic humidifier with a basin that's dishwasher safe. It's really amazing to me that "how do you clean this fucking thing?" is such a nebulous concept for the engineers of these devices.
- alliao 6y ago
  you're supposed to chuck it; not unlike the philips air fryer. disassembly and cleaning it thoroughly takes many hours.
- tallanvor 6y ago
  Ideally you use distilled water in a humidifier, which should really help to keep it clean. But that can be a pain. I add a small amount of bleach every other time I fill the tank (a few drops - if you can smell it you've added too much) and once a week I empty it out entirely, wipe it down, and let it dry completely. And, of course, if I'm turning it off for longer than 12 hours or so, I empty it out.
01100011 6y ago
The chemical which caused the issue, if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhexamethylene_guanidine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyhexamethylene_guanidine
- pessimizer 6y ago

bootlooped 6y ago

Carbon scrubbers are the healthy, bulletproof solution to eliminating stubborn odors in the home. Not the tiny little activated charcoal sheets that are in some air purifiers, they are too small to do that much, I'm talking about the cylindrical ones made for indoor marijuana grows. I used to live in a small NYC apartment with a cat. You could not smell any pet smell once I got a carbon scrubber going in there. If you get a decent variable speed fan it's going to be no louder than a regular consumer air purifier. If your only concern is odor, it's going to be more cost effective in the long run than an air purifier too.

fedreserved 6y ago
The fans can be purchased on ebay cheaply in lots. For the carbon filters the cheapest I've found is growgreenmi.com You can imagine what the site is for
Zircom 6y ago
Any recommendations on affordable ones? I love my cats but you are spot on about the smell, I currently use the plug in air fresheners when I have company but take them out as soon as they leave.
- bootlooped 6y ago
  I like this fan a lot: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07FPFVZTZ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07FPFVZTZ I had a previous speed-controlled fan that had an annoying buzz at low speed. This AC Infinity one is very good though. I would not cheap out on the fan. I had this set on the lowest setting, and also had an outlet timer plugged in so it turned off for several hours in the middle of the night. Conversely I don't think the carbon scrubber itself matters much. I think they're basically fungible commodities. Here is a perfectly fine one: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01731MLFK https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01731MLFK For regular household use (aka not growing marijuana) either 4" or 6" is appropriate. I went with the 6" because I thought it would most likely be quieter than 4" for moving the same amount of air. You just have to make sure you get the same size inline fan and carbon scrubber.

brandonmenc 6y ago

Had a cat that kept going to the vet with kidney problems. Couldn't figure out what the problem was, but eventually tracked it down to the plug-in air freshener next to her perch. Got rid of it and the bloodwork started coming back normal almost instantly.

computator 6y ago
Do you recall what specific test was out of normal range? (Was it creatinine, urea, etc.)
- brandonmenc 6y ago
  I don't, unfortunately.

sokoloff 6y ago

> Natural essential oils, for example, can be used to make safe home scenting products, such as “DIY” scented candles. This sentence comes after a one sentence gap from a paragraph warning that the plug-ins contain volatile organic compounds(VOCs). Natural essential oils also contain VOCs. It’s how you smell them.

kragen 6y ago
It might be more accurate to say that natural essential oils are VOCs.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  And the essential comes from the fact that the oils are the essence of the plants(what remains when you boil one for a really long time), not because they are essential for humans...
astura 6y ago
Burning candles also releases VOCs (and soot) into the air. My old roommate was a daily candle burner, and the walls in her bedroom ended up absolutely covered in soot after a few years. Not only that, many (but not all) essential oils are very toxic to cats and maybe other pets too - blanketly calling them "safe" is just plain wrong. Like very, very wrong. It's probably not a good idea to diffuse essential oils in general, they are VOCs after all, but it's an especially bad idea if you have pets.
- rrmm 6y ago
  On top of that, essential oil purity is probably not exactly well regulated. Depending what chemicals are used to do the extraction, there can be nasty stuff left over not to mention adulterants or other random stuff.
dmos62 6y ago
Don't use candle essential oil diffusers. Candles burn too hot and burn the things you don't want to burn. There are electricly heated diffusers that warm up the oil to a lower temperature. But, don't use essential oil diffusers if you have pets. Pets can be extremely sensitive to essential oils and some are toxic to some pets while safe to humans. There are ways to treat pets with essential oils, but the process is very delicate. You essentially open a bottle and put it at a distance from your pet. If the pet approaches it himself and shows signs of liking it, you can look into ways of incorporating some of this oil into pet's life, but gently so as to not overwhelm him. For human use, just smell it out of the bottle or rub it on specific points on your body. Look up relevant literature for details. Most important thing is that just by smelling it you can immediately tell if that specific essential oil is good for you. Don't use them just because someone said they're beneficial.

excalibur 6y ago

(2017)

FounderBurr 6y ago

Junk science peddler.

briefcomment 6y ago
These things have always been pretty obviously uncomfortable for me to be around, since way before I've come across research like this. Have you considered that your body just doesn't have the capacity to notice it? A poor sense of smell is possible, and is a risk factor for many things.

cassonmars 6y ago

My mother was one of the super skeptical types, so she wouldn’t allow the plug in fresheners in the house (or the spray kind either) — it was open windows, sunlight, and very limited cleaning products. I’m pretty thankful about that skepticism and intend to keep that momentum when I have kids.

PurpleFoxy 6y ago
My mum was the same, including with plastic food containers. Turns out those are really bad as well. It’s also amazing how we continue to use products knowing they are toxic.
clumsysmurf 6y ago
Your mom was right. Sunlight disinfects rooms too. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181017211703.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181017211703.h...
hedberg10 6y ago
My parents consciously moved away from the city and big roads to have their kids. Which I reversed in my infinite 20 something wisdom. If you ever experience a skin condition that seemingly won't go away and is surprisingly painful, you'll get hip to the scam that are cleaning products quite quickly. They can all be made at home, with 3 or 4 ingredients. The supplies will last a lifetime and you don't produce any non recyclable plastic bottles (another scam!).
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  > They can all be made at home, with 3 or 4 ingredients. I've done a few experiments with home made saponification in the past but I never really considered this for other cleaning products. Can you share some resources or experience on this?
  - hedberg10 6y ago
    This is Lisa Bronner of Dr. Bronners which I used as a starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLCBz6JdQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItLCBz6JdQI There is also a girl who hasn't used any plastic for years and makes everything herself including beauty products: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuABgFsv5pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuABgFsv5pw Lots on Youtube in general. Again, I do it because I needed to, I don't want to preach or shame.

dnndev 6y ago

Just as toxic if not worse is laundry detergent and especially fabric softener (scented of course). Here is a list of just SOME of the toxic chemicals found in commercial fabric softeners: Alpha Terpineol: can cause central nervous damage and respiratory problems Camphor: causes central nervous disorders, is easily absorbed through skin Chloroform: a carcinogenic neurotoxin preferred by Ted Bundy Benzyl Acetate: linked to pancreatic cancer Benyl Alcohol: respiratory tract irritant Ethanol: on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list, can cause central nervous system disorders Ethyl Acetate: a narcotic on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list Limonene: a known carcinogen that irritates eyes and skin Linalool: causes central nervous system disorders and depresses heart activity

mindslight 6y ago
> Ethanol: on the EPA’s “hazardous waste” list, can cause central nervous system disorders And with that you've demonstrated that your entire list isn't likely to be grounded in reality.
- astura 6y ago
  For those that might not know, ethanol is the "alcohol" in "alcoholic beverages."
- conistonwater 6y ago
  That is technically correct, technically.
01100011 6y ago
Alpha Terpineol is in pine trees. Benzyl Alcohol is in many plants and foods. Ethanol is, well, ethanol. Ethyl Acetate is found in many alcoholic beverages and is a simple ester of ethanol and acetic acid(vinegar). Limonene is orange oil, found in citrus peels. Linalool is found in many spices and flowers. I'm not sure if you're seriously trying to scare people or making a sarcastic 'di-hydrogen monoxide' style joke.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Causality1 6y ago

This article might be completely factually correct but its overall quality is pretty bad. It doesn't tell you whether these chemicals are found in the liquid, in the vapor, or in both. No exploration of what the vaporization process does to these chemicals or whether there are types of plug-in fresheners that don't contain hazardous chemicals. No attempt to quantify what is and isn't a dangerous concentration. If my brother keeps one in his closed bathroom do I need to wake him up to yank it out? If I only have one freshener and it's in the big living room is it safe? Are there any filtration or neutralization methods that let users keep most of the scent while being safer? Then the big question, are scented candles just as bad? This is a kernel of good info but damn it could've been so much better.

londons_explore 6y ago
Lots of answers to your questions aren't available. Safe concentrations of many things aren't known for humans, because studying them is very difficult (effects over many decades, ethics problems with experimenting on people)

rentzsch 6y ago

read https://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist https://scienceblogs.com/angrytoxicologist (RIP)

teekert 6y ago

I have always wondered why these things are a allowed to be called "Air Fresheners". They don't make the air fresher, they mask bad odors, so they should be called Air Scenters. I've always felt a bit alone in this but I much prefer a bit of residual faecal scent left by a ventilation system than the heavy blanked smell of an Air "Freshener", I could only imagine what filth it was hiding. These things are the cheap alternative to true fresh(er) air.

londons_explore 6y ago
We should call them "Smell blockers" or maybe "Scent blinder"
gher-shyu3i 6y ago
Exactly. It's misleading marketing, if not straight out lying.
Steve44 6y ago
> They don't make the air fresher, they mask bad odors I read a little while ago there are some which just add scent to mask the smell, but others have a doughnut shaped molecule which captures the smelly molecule. It doesn't 'clean' as such and does nothing to stop the source of the smell though so perhaps calling it masking is correct. I don't know enough about the specific science of cyclodextrin, I've put a couple of links below. https://www.direct365.co.uk/blog/how-air-fresheners-work/ https://www.direct365.co.uk/blog/how-air-fresheners-work/ > The key to odour eliminating air fresheners is a molecule called cyclodextrin. This is a donut shaped molecule suspended in a water carrier. Due to cyclodextrin’s hydrophobic interior, it attracts the odour molecules in the air. As the water dries, the molecules on the interior of the cyclodextrin are encapsulated inside, therefore reducing their volatility and minimising their smell. https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2015/06/take-whiff-chemistry https://helix.northwestern.edu/blog/2015/06/take-whiff-chemi... > When you spray Febreze the hydrophobic cavity of the β-cyclodextrin traps these volatile, odor causing molecules, preventing the molecules from binding to the odor receptors in your nose

Tabular-Iceberg 6y ago

Here’s yet another much more likely candidate than soy for the so-called “soyboy” phenomenon. It certainly fits with the affluent suburban demographic profile.

dvh 6y ago

I think candles should contain large black and white warning stickers like cigarettes.

kwhitefoot 6y ago
Are the risks and consequences comparable?
- bregma 6y ago
  Only if you inhale.
- ryanmercer 6y ago
  Paraffin candles release benzene and toluene at a minimum. Then factor in the amount of soot candles will readily produce when people don't trim the wicks between uses (and cheap candles are sooty no matter what you do) and, yeah.

acvny 6y ago

You don't have to be very smart to figure that out. I get sick only from the slightest smell coming out of those things.

gsjjsjsbsb 6y ago

Glade made me trans. Very insightful