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I think you are correct in that these tools will undoubtedly be used against progressive folks and minorities, as that's historically where they've been used.

I think you are correct in that these tools will undoubtedly be used against progressive folks and minorities, as that's historically where they've been used. I believe that Twitch has too much power/authority, but also I believe that it's reasonable to moderate speech in communities and platforms. That said, I believe there's a material difference between examples and what was shared in the parent comment. I don't think one can generalize from "speech calling for violence should be removed from Twitch" to "all unpopular opinions will be suppressed". Yes, it was unpopular (and career limiting) to stand up for LGTBQ+ folks, and those voices rarely got mainstream airtime. Suppressing those voices was wrong, but totally different than prohibiting endorsements of mass violence. I believe we, culturally, can evaluate the difference between "I think gay folks should have equal rights" and "America deserved 9/11" and understand why we should be open to the former and cautious about the latter.

wongarsu 6y ago
Both "I think gay folks should have equal rights" and "America deserved 9/11" are fundamentally statements about ethics, and neither is calling for violence.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Yes, that's very true. The second statement though, was a blatant call to violence (if white redneck militia dudes...), and the author did not get banned from twitch, instead they were simply limited in their monetization options. But "America deserved 9/11" was an ethical statement, you're right.
  - bopbeepboop 6y ago
    No, the second statement isn’t a call to violence. > "If that means white redneck militia dudes mowing down dipshit protesters that think they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing." This is clearly not a call to violence: it’s an approval of people intervening in serial arson, even if that means using force against the arsonists and lamenting that the state has failed to stop the serial arson, so it may fall to a militia. You can tell that by “if [...], at this point they have my fucking blessing” rather than any call to action. Approving of militias using force to stop serial arsonists when the state has failed to keep the peace is an ethical statement — and one much tamer than “America deserved 9/11”. Most people believe that people have the right to protect themselves when the state fails to maintain peace. I suspect you’re being uncharitable because you personally support the arsonists’ crime spree. What specific violent act do you believe that quote calls for?
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      "Mowing down" doesn't mean anything except mass murder, generally using fully automatic firearms. We both know this. This is Destiny saying that if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop property damage, it is justified. There's no two ways about it. Whether it is tamer or not than "America deserved 9/11" is a matter of opinion, I won't pronounce myself on it but I totally understand that opinion. It is categorically true that while "America deserved 9/11" is a statement of ethics, saying that you personally bless mass murder to prevent property destruction is incitement of violence.
      - bopbeepboop 6y ago
        The 9/11 attack was a mass murder event. Saying “America deserved 9/11” and “I’m okay with arsonists being killed by militias when the police can no longer maintain the peace” are both moral statements about mass casualty events — but neither is a call to commit a violent act. > “if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop [serial arsonist gangs, when the police fail to stop them], it is justified” This is clearly a statement of personal ethics — it’s discussing the cases in which the speaker believes violence is just, not calling for specific acts of violence. I think you know that.
        sudosysgen 6y ago
        There is a difference between, "it can be justified", and "you have my blessing to do it". You're not going to be able to weasel your way out of the situation where someone gives their blessing to mass murder with a place and time in the future and not have that be incitement of violence.
        bopbeepboop 6y ago
        As you said: > This is Destiny saying that if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop property damage, it is justified. There's no two ways about it. “If [...], then justified” is an ethical statement — and as you say, there’s no two ways about interpreting it. You simply lack the intellectual honesty to admit your own summary of the statement plainly shows it’s an ethical statement, not an incitement to violence. You disagree with the statement, so you’re making emotional, inconsistent arguments to try discrediting it. The only person “weaseling” is you — who are contradicting yourself and refusing to address my points.
  - esyir 6y ago
    It most definitely is not, especially if you take the surrounding text, rather than the cherry picked except.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      I watched the stream live, and instantly unsubscribed from Destiny's youtube channel. Saying that you feel like the situation allows for lethal violence to be used and that you would bless it is certainly, without a doubt, inciting violence.
- rsj_hn 6y ago
  There have been multiple calls for violence against the police and against ICE coming from the left. Hacker News played a role in disclosing the home addresses of ICE employees shortly before a sniper shot through the windows of one of the locations at the address. Go read the stuff the John Brown Gun club is putting out.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Do you have a source of someone that made calls for violence against the police, was reported, and wasn't banned for it on Twitch or Hacker News?

wongarsu 6y ago

Both "I think gay folks should have equal rights" and "America deserved 9/11" are fundamentally statements about ethics, and neither is calling for violence.

sudosysgen 6y ago
Yes, that's very true. The second statement though, was a blatant call to violence (if white redneck militia dudes...), and the author did not get banned from twitch, instead they were simply limited in their monetization options. But "America deserved 9/11" was an ethical statement, you're right.
- bopbeepboop 6y ago
  No, the second statement isn’t a call to violence. > "If that means white redneck militia dudes mowing down dipshit protesters that think they can torch buildings at 10 PM, at this point they have my fucking blessing." This is clearly not a call to violence: it’s an approval of people intervening in serial arson, even if that means using force against the arsonists and lamenting that the state has failed to stop the serial arson, so it may fall to a militia. You can tell that by “if [...], at this point they have my fucking blessing” rather than any call to action. Approving of militias using force to stop serial arsonists when the state has failed to keep the peace is an ethical statement — and one much tamer than “America deserved 9/11”. Most people believe that people have the right to protect themselves when the state fails to maintain peace. I suspect you’re being uncharitable because you personally support the arsonists’ crime spree. What specific violent act do you believe that quote calls for?
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    "Mowing down" doesn't mean anything except mass murder, generally using fully automatic firearms. We both know this. This is Destiny saying that if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop property damage, it is justified. There's no two ways about it. Whether it is tamer or not than "America deserved 9/11" is a matter of opinion, I won't pronounce myself on it but I totally understand that opinion. It is categorically true that while "America deserved 9/11" is a statement of ethics, saying that you personally bless mass murder to prevent property destruction is incitement of violence.
    - bopbeepboop 6y ago
      The 9/11 attack was a mass murder event. Saying “America deserved 9/11” and “I’m okay with arsonists being killed by militias when the police can no longer maintain the peace” are both moral statements about mass casualty events — but neither is a call to commit a violent act. > “if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop [serial arsonist gangs, when the police fail to stop them], it is justified” This is clearly a statement of personal ethics — it’s discussing the cases in which the speaker believes violence is just, not calling for specific acts of violence. I think you know that.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        There is a difference between, "it can be justified", and "you have my blessing to do it". You're not going to be able to weasel your way out of the situation where someone gives their blessing to mass murder with a place and time in the future and not have that be incitement of violence.
        bopbeepboop 6y ago
        As you said: > This is Destiny saying that if it takes someone committing mass murder to stop property damage, it is justified. There's no two ways about it. “If [...], then justified” is an ethical statement — and as you say, there’s no two ways about interpreting it. You simply lack the intellectual honesty to admit your own summary of the statement plainly shows it’s an ethical statement, not an incitement to violence. You disagree with the statement, so you’re making emotional, inconsistent arguments to try discrediting it. The only person “weaseling” is you — who are contradicting yourself and refusing to address my points.
- esyir 6y ago
  It most definitely is not, especially if you take the surrounding text, rather than the cherry picked except.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    I watched the stream live, and instantly unsubscribed from Destiny's youtube channel. Saying that you feel like the situation allows for lethal violence to be used and that you would bless it is certainly, without a doubt, inciting violence.
rsj_hn 6y ago
There have been multiple calls for violence against the police and against ICE coming from the left. Hacker News played a role in disclosing the home addresses of ICE employees shortly before a sniper shot through the windows of one of the locations at the address. Go read the stuff the John Brown Gun club is putting out.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Do you have a source of someone that made calls for violence against the police, was reported, and wasn't banned for it on Twitch or Hacker News?