5 ms·

I'm part of a writing group that consists of 10 published authors. Of the 10, 8 absolutely despise writing first drafts. Those 8 constantly groan about having

I'm part of a writing group that consists of 10 published authors. Of the 10, 8 absolutely despise writing first drafts. Those 8 constantly groan about having to sit their butts in the chair and get the words down. There's a common mentality of, "I hate writing, but I love having written." But those 8 members have landed several major deals, had movie rights sold, hundreds and thousands of copies sold, etc. And perhaps more importantly, they've gotten letters saying that their work changed people's lives for the better. So although I personally fall into the "I love writing in all its stages" category, I have no problem with other writers talking about how much they hate it. Those people create some of the best work I've ever had the pleasure of reading. If it takes some moaning and groaning to make it happen, then so be it. That being said--I will reserve my right to tease them about their moaning and annoy them with my undying enthusiasm. :)

SiVal 6y ago
That's fascinating. Are they writing what they want to write, or are they only writing for the money or adulation? I've written commercially, but not at the rarefied level of your cohorts, and I've never wanted to make a career of it. I've always wanted to write well, but I've never had to rely on it to make a mortgage payment, much less to establish my place in the world, and I've often wondered if that explained the fact that I don't hate writing first drafts. If I need to fix a toilet because a fixed toilet is needed, I like having fixed the toilet but might not enjoy fixing it. But if I'm creating what I want to create--writing or painting or a software project--then I feel like creating it, not just having created it. But for some it apparently is more like fixing very valuable toilets.
- paperwasp42 6y ago
  > Are they writing what they want to write, or are they only writing for the money or adulation? A mixture. A lot of authors write in multiple genres to make ends meet (even a "major" contract pays way, way less than most people think). So for example I have one friend whose true passion is mystery with a literary bent (not a super popular niche), but also writes contemporary romance (the highest selling genre) to pay the bills. There's also a constant conflict in publishing of writing what you love vs writing what you know will sell (not to mention what your editor will allow). So even if you pour your uncensored soul into a manuscript, your soul is going to take a beating with a red pen before it hits shelves. :) That being said--everyone in this group writes at least one genre they're genuinely passionate about. > I've always wanted to write well, but I've never had to rely on it to make a mortgage payment, much less to establish my place in the world, and I've often wondered if that explained the fact that I don't hate writing first drafts. I would say this is a huge factor. Deadlines have a magical ability to kill joy in a craft. I think a lot of the "I hate writing" mentality comes from "I'm a perfectionist who feels I don't have enough time to make this manuscript as good as I want it to be." That being said--a lot of people feel this dread even before they're published, so I think there's more than one factor at play.
Dracophoenix 6y ago
What makes you feel more favorable towards first draft in comparison to your friends. Is it a mental model that you've adopted? Some interest in screwing around before composing in earnest? No multi-million dollar contracts or other stressors hanging over your head?
- paperwasp42 6y ago
  Oh, interesting question. I would chalk it up to three factors: 1) Genetics. I've always been one of those hopelessly enthusiastic and energetic people. (In contrast, a lot of my fellow writers suffer from serious depression, so getting the energy/motivation to write can be a huge obstacle.) 2) Almost dying a few times. As cliche as it is, it puts life into perspective and makes you feel tiny and relatively unimportant. I don't stress about my "legacy" like most writers I know, so it makes the whole process of writing way less stressful. It's all just good fun for me. 3) Using strict timed-writing and structured word count goals. A lot of writers are haunted by thoughts like, "Oh god, I have to finish an entire novel, and it's due in just three months!" For me, that thought process is, "I only have to write 750 words today to meet my weekly 3500 word goal." 4) I ain't famous. :) It's much easier to not stress when you're not thinking to yourself, "Am I going to get literal hate mail from my 50,000 adoring fans for including this plot twist?"
dvt 6y ago
> There's a common mentality of, "I hate writing, but I love having written." I don't think this is that surprising: I love doing startups, but I hate screwing around with boilerplate code, doing zillions of early customer development interviews, and doing taxes. I love playing competitive volleyball, but I hate drills and conditioning.
- PhasmaFelis 6y ago
  I love having money, but I hate working. We're kindred spirits!
- paperwasp42 6y ago
  This aligns with a trend I've noticed of startup founders having very similar mindsets to novelists. And some brave souls being both.
greatgoat420 6y ago
That seems like a bizarre group, may I ask how you joined them?
- paperwasp42 6y ago
  Over a decade spent in writing circles, working in publishing for 5 years, countless evenings spent at various critique groups, landing a top agent with good contacts, and befriending some people who are far more talented than me. All kind of coalesced into a melding of friend groups and our little group of creative misfits forming. I should probably clarify that we have a handful of extreme success stories, and the rest of us are low or mid tier writers. Groups like us aren't rare (although our size is a bit larger than usual) since it's really hard to find quality critique partners. Once you find them, you hold on tight, and writers often stay in the same groups for years (even decades).

SiVal 6y ago

That's fascinating. Are they writing what they want to write, or are they only writing for the money or adulation? I've written commercially, but not at the rarefied level of your cohorts, and I've never wanted to make a career of it. I've always wanted to write well, but I've never had to rely on it to make a mortgage payment, much less to establish my place in the world, and I've often wondered if that explained the fact that I don't hate writing first drafts. If I need to fix a toilet because a fixed toilet is needed, I like having fixed the toilet but might not enjoy fixing it. But if I'm creating what I want to create--writing or painting or a software project--then I feel like creating it, not just having created it. But for some it apparently is more like fixing very valuable toilets.

paperwasp42 6y ago
> Are they writing what they want to write, or are they only writing for the money or adulation? A mixture. A lot of authors write in multiple genres to make ends meet (even a "major" contract pays way, way less than most people think). So for example I have one friend whose true passion is mystery with a literary bent (not a super popular niche), but also writes contemporary romance (the highest selling genre) to pay the bills. There's also a constant conflict in publishing of writing what you love vs writing what you know will sell (not to mention what your editor will allow). So even if you pour your uncensored soul into a manuscript, your soul is going to take a beating with a red pen before it hits shelves. :) That being said--everyone in this group writes at least one genre they're genuinely passionate about. > I've always wanted to write well, but I've never had to rely on it to make a mortgage payment, much less to establish my place in the world, and I've often wondered if that explained the fact that I don't hate writing first drafts. I would say this is a huge factor. Deadlines have a magical ability to kill joy in a craft. I think a lot of the "I hate writing" mentality comes from "I'm a perfectionist who feels I don't have enough time to make this manuscript as good as I want it to be." That being said--a lot of people feel this dread even before they're published, so I think there's more than one factor at play.

Dracophoenix 6y ago

What makes you feel more favorable towards first draft in comparison to your friends. Is it a mental model that you've adopted? Some interest in screwing around before composing in earnest? No multi-million dollar contracts or other stressors hanging over your head?

paperwasp42 6y ago
Oh, interesting question. I would chalk it up to three factors: 1) Genetics. I've always been one of those hopelessly enthusiastic and energetic people. (In contrast, a lot of my fellow writers suffer from serious depression, so getting the energy/motivation to write can be a huge obstacle.) 2) Almost dying a few times. As cliche as it is, it puts life into perspective and makes you feel tiny and relatively unimportant. I don't stress about my "legacy" like most writers I know, so it makes the whole process of writing way less stressful. It's all just good fun for me. 3) Using strict timed-writing and structured word count goals. A lot of writers are haunted by thoughts like, "Oh god, I have to finish an entire novel, and it's due in just three months!" For me, that thought process is, "I only have to write 750 words today to meet my weekly 3500 word goal." 4) I ain't famous. :) It's much easier to not stress when you're not thinking to yourself, "Am I going to get literal hate mail from my 50,000 adoring fans for including this plot twist?"

dvt 6y ago

> There's a common mentality of, "I hate writing, but I love having written." I don't think this is that surprising: I love doing startups, but I hate screwing around with boilerplate code, doing zillions of early customer development interviews, and doing taxes. I love playing competitive volleyball, but I hate drills and conditioning.

PhasmaFelis 6y ago
I love having money, but I hate working. We're kindred spirits!
paperwasp42 6y ago
This aligns with a trend I've noticed of startup founders having very similar mindsets to novelists. And some brave souls being both.

greatgoat420 6y ago

That seems like a bizarre group, may I ask how you joined them?

paperwasp42 6y ago
Over a decade spent in writing circles, working in publishing for 5 years, countless evenings spent at various critique groups, landing a top agent with good contacts, and befriending some people who are far more talented than me. All kind of coalesced into a melding of friend groups and our little group of creative misfits forming. I should probably clarify that we have a handful of extreme success stories, and the rest of us are low or mid tier writers. Groups like us aren't rare (although our size is a bit larger than usual) since it's really hard to find quality critique partners. Once you find them, you hold on tight, and writers often stay in the same groups for years (even decades).