3 ms·

Making a hostile environment at work probably isn't protected, though, and that's what carrying a swastika flag on national television will make. As soon as I

Making a hostile environment at work probably isn't protected, though, and that's what carrying a swastika flag on national television will make. As soon as I know a coworker is running about carrying a swastika flag, I can never feel safe around that coworker again.

rightbyte 6y ago
Prince Harry, John Cleese etc beg to differ. Or are we working with hypotetical actual nazis? 5g covid thruthers?
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  Almost every rule has an exception or two. In general, however, most of us aren't working with folks seriously into theater and such things. Even when folks are, I'm still suspicious until they prove otherwise.
nitrogen 6y ago
But what someone does outside of work and not involving coworkers is, by definition, not a part of the workplace environment. Treating everything about a person as within scope for personal concern is one of the things that really strongly turns people against each other. It shouldn't matter what someone believes or does on their own time, whether it's a right-leaning company with a gay employee, or a left-leaning company with a right-leaning employee.
- kstrauser 6y ago
  That's not reasonable, and I don't think anyone truly believes that. For instance, if a black guy's boss talks about attending a Ku Klux Klan meeting, you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning. Wherever you are on the political spectrum, I'm sure you can imagine someone engaging in some form out outside-work activities that would make you feel personally unsafe at work. If that person got fired, not for their beliefs but for their actions, then, well, that's the consequence of making a hostile workplace.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    This is exactly it - Thank you.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning If they never mention their non-work life at work, and work is going fine, then isn't that pretty clear evidence that they are leaving it (whatever "it" is) all at home? consequence of making a hostile workplace. It's pretty easy to argue, and yes argue honestly, that any hostility here is introduced by the person who brings up something from someone else's non-work life while at work, when previously the two were separate. That's actual harassment. Someone having an opinion we don't like but that they never bring up at work, is clearly not workplace hostility or harassment on their part.
    - kstrauser 6y ago
      > If they never mention their non-work life at work, and work is going fine, then isn't that pretty clear evidence that they are leaving it (whatever "it" is) all at home? No, because it calls all of their decision making into question. Why did they give a promotion to the white guy instead of the black guy? Was the white guy truly the better candidate, and the fact that they were at a Klan meeting had nothing to do with it? Could be, but I know what the black guy's labor attorney would be presenting as evidence to the jury. > It's pretty easy to argue, and yes argue honestly, that any hostility here is introduced by the person who brings up something from someone else's non-work life while at work, when previously the two were separate. That's actual harassment. That's actually messed up. "I'm offended that you're angry that I attend Klan rallies. You're harassing me!" That simply isn't how the world works, nor should it be. > Someone having an opinion we don't like but that they never bring up at work, is clearly not workplace hostility or harassment on their part. That doesn't fly in a courtroom; again, nor should it. Some opinions are a matter of two people seeing the world through different eyes, and that richness of experience is wonderful and fertile soil for learning. And some opinions are a toxic mess that bring real harm to the people around the ones holding them.

rightbyte 6y ago

Prince Harry, John Cleese etc beg to differ. Or are we working with hypotetical actual nazis? 5g covid thruthers?

Broken_Hippo 6y ago
Almost every rule has an exception or two. In general, however, most of us aren't working with folks seriously into theater and such things. Even when folks are, I'm still suspicious until they prove otherwise.

nitrogen 6y ago

But what someone does outside of work and not involving coworkers is, by definition, not a part of the workplace environment. Treating everything about a person as within scope for personal concern is one of the things that really strongly turns people against each other. It shouldn't matter what someone believes or does on their own time, whether it's a right-leaning company with a gay employee, or a left-leaning company with a right-leaning employee.

kstrauser 6y ago
That's not reasonable, and I don't think anyone truly believes that. For instance, if a black guy's boss talks about attending a Ku Klux Klan meeting, you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning. Wherever you are on the political spectrum, I'm sure you can imagine someone engaging in some form out outside-work activities that would make you feel personally unsafe at work. If that person got fired, not for their beliefs but for their actions, then, well, that's the consequence of making a hostile workplace.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  This is exactly it - Thank you.
- nitrogen 6y ago
  you can't honestly argue that said boss leaves that all at home when they meet at work in the morning If they never mention their non-work life at work, and work is going fine, then isn't that pretty clear evidence that they are leaving it (whatever "it" is) all at home? consequence of making a hostile workplace. It's pretty easy to argue, and yes argue honestly, that any hostility here is introduced by the person who brings up something from someone else's non-work life while at work, when previously the two were separate. That's actual harassment. Someone having an opinion we don't like but that they never bring up at work, is clearly not workplace hostility or harassment on their part.
  - kstrauser 6y ago
    > If they never mention their non-work life at work, and work is going fine, then isn't that pretty clear evidence that they are leaving it (whatever "it" is) all at home? No, because it calls all of their decision making into question. Why did they give a promotion to the white guy instead of the black guy? Was the white guy truly the better candidate, and the fact that they were at a Klan meeting had nothing to do with it? Could be, but I know what the black guy's labor attorney would be presenting as evidence to the jury. > It's pretty easy to argue, and yes argue honestly, that any hostility here is introduced by the person who brings up something from someone else's non-work life while at work, when previously the two were separate. That's actual harassment. That's actually messed up. "I'm offended that you're angry that I attend Klan rallies. You're harassing me!" That simply isn't how the world works, nor should it be. > Someone having an opinion we don't like but that they never bring up at work, is clearly not workplace hostility or harassment on their part. That doesn't fly in a courtroom; again, nor should it. Some opinions are a matter of two people seeing the world through different eyes, and that richness of experience is wonderful and fertile soil for learning. And some opinions are a toxic mess that bring real harm to the people around the ones holding them.