5 ms·

Then _don't drive in the city._ Why is this so hard to understand? Unless you're a delivery vehicle, driving in a city is just antisocial.

TulliusCicero 6y ago
If you're just used to regular US cities, this is hard to grasp. Average US cities -- even bigger ones -- the public transport is slow, sparse, and unreliable; biking is uncomfortable and dangerous; and everything is so spread out that walking is mostly impractical. When you're thinking in that context and imagine switching modes...it just sounds terrible. Because it is. That doesn't mean the solution is everyone driving forever though: the solution is improving the infrastructure and land use to where other options ARE more viable. They should be good enough to where you don't have to convince anyone to use them; their usefulness should speak for themselves.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  Also cycling in 100+ degree weather is rough in Texas, Arizona, etc
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    Obviously it's not ideal weather, but I think people maybe exaggerate how much that matters relative to infrastructure. I haven't heard of any examples in the more southern US (or comparable parts of the world) where they built great infrastructure and people ignored it because of the heat.
  - rtlfe 6y ago
    People say the same thing about winter in the Northeast. Then when they see how convenient and freeing it is to ride a bike, they quickly learn to deal with the weather.
    - moistbar 6y ago
      If you're claiming that people will still ride their bikes to work when it's 20 F outside, you're incorrect.
      - sudosysgen 6y ago
        I know a lot of people that ride their bikes at work at such temperatures, and one of the biggest issues with doing that isn't the cold - exertion really warms you up - but badly maintained, snowy shoulders and a higher risk of cars crashing into you. Especially now that ebikes are a thing.
      - rtlfe 6y ago
        I'm not sure how to respond to somebody so confidently asserting something so obviously false, but maybe photographic evidence will help? https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/cyclists-frozen-out-of-bike-lanes-after-blizzard-hits-nyc/ https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/cyclists-frozen-out-of-bike-la...
        moistbar 6y ago
        I'm not sure how to convince someone that people stop going outside when the weather sucks. But hey, you've got a New York Times article, so that obviously means my eyes are wrong, right?
      - mauvehaus 6y ago
        If you're claiming that they won't, I'll happily be your counterexample. Buying a Brompton and riding 3 miles from the end of public transit to work through pretty much all weather in Boston was about the best thing I did for my sanity in all of 2019. Yes, on the snowy and icy days too. I did a fair amount of bike commuting in Cleveland as well, though the drive was less hellish and I drove some of the lousier days. The worst part of moving to Vermont, perversely, is that I get less exercise because it's a 25 mile one-way trip to the shop I work out of.
        Leherenn 6y ago
moistbar 6y ago
You have to in the US. What part of that is so hard to understand? Our public transit is trash, so there's no other option for people who live outside the city and have to go there. If you want to fix something, fix that.

TulliusCicero 6y ago

If you're just used to regular US cities, this is hard to grasp. Average US cities -- even bigger ones -- the public transport is slow, sparse, and unreliable; biking is uncomfortable and dangerous; and everything is so spread out that walking is mostly impractical. When you're thinking in that context and imagine switching modes...it just sounds terrible. Because it is. That doesn't mean the solution is everyone driving forever though: the solution is improving the infrastructure and land use to where other options ARE more viable. They should be good enough to where you don't have to convince anyone to use them; their usefulness should speak for themselves.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stjohnswarts 6y ago
Also cycling in 100+ degree weather is rough in Texas, Arizona, etc
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  Obviously it's not ideal weather, but I think people maybe exaggerate how much that matters relative to infrastructure. I haven't heard of any examples in the more southern US (or comparable parts of the world) where they built great infrastructure and people ignored it because of the heat.
- rtlfe 6y ago
  People say the same thing about winter in the Northeast. Then when they see how convenient and freeing it is to ride a bike, they quickly learn to deal with the weather.
  - moistbar 6y ago
    If you're claiming that people will still ride their bikes to work when it's 20 F outside, you're incorrect.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      I know a lot of people that ride their bikes at work at such temperatures, and one of the biggest issues with doing that isn't the cold - exertion really warms you up - but badly maintained, snowy shoulders and a higher risk of cars crashing into you. Especially now that ebikes are a thing.
    - rtlfe 6y ago
      I'm not sure how to respond to somebody so confidently asserting something so obviously false, but maybe photographic evidence will help? https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/cyclists-frozen-out-of-bike-lanes-after-blizzard-hits-nyc/ https://nypost.com/2020/12/20/cyclists-frozen-out-of-bike-la...
      - moistbar 6y ago
        I'm not sure how to convince someone that people stop going outside when the weather sucks. But hey, you've got a New York Times article, so that obviously means my eyes are wrong, right?
    - mauvehaus 6y ago
      If you're claiming that they won't, I'll happily be your counterexample. Buying a Brompton and riding 3 miles from the end of public transit to work through pretty much all weather in Boston was about the best thing I did for my sanity in all of 2019. Yes, on the snowy and icy days too. I did a fair amount of bike commuting in Cleveland as well, though the drive was less hellish and I drove some of the lousier days. The worst part of moving to Vermont, perversely, is that I get less exercise because it's a 25 mile one-way trip to the shop I work out of.
      - Leherenn 6y ago

moistbar 6y ago

You have to in the US. What part of that is so hard to understand? Our public transit is trash, so there's no other option for people who live outside the city and have to go there. If you want to fix something, fix that.