4 ms·

Her Mind Freed: The inspired utterances of Buddhist nuns

49 points by diodorus 6y ago

teraflop 6y ago
This article is particularly noteworthy in the context of a more recent "translation" of the same poems, The First Free Women, which attracted a lot of criticism from Buddhists for being largely invented (by a male author) rather than translated: https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/ https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Shambhala is an odd publisher. On one hand, it has produced a few editions of classical Asian texts that are almost (but never quite) of equal quality to a scholarly press – Cleary’s translation of the Avatamsakasutra comes to mind. On the other hand, Shambhala have put out many supposed translations of classics that are just the fanciful imagination of the translator (who in some cases doesn’t actually have any training in the source language), but they sure sound hip and so they sell well to naïve buyers.
  - aarpmcgee 6y ago
    I'm curious. Can you offer any names of such translations?
    - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
      Of renderings instead of actual translations? One of the most notorious examples is Coleman Barks’ "translations" of Rumi that Shambhala put out. Barks does not actually know Persian, and his versions of Rumi are based on existing English translations along with his own personal inspirations.
      - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
        At least when it comes to poetry, in a perfect case you'd have a totally fluent bilingual translator who also happens to be a poet. That's not very common (David Hinton[1] comes to mind) but far more often you either have a language scholar with a tin ear, or a poet who's faking a knowledge of the source material. That latter case can make for some good poetry, but it won't be an 'accurate' translation for sure. 1: https://poets.org/poet/david-hinton https://poets.org/poet/david-hinton
        aarpmcgee 6y ago
        Stoked to see Hinton in a HN thread. I refer to his I Ching translation often.
- detcader 6y ago
  Interesting, I have been hearing of this book for the past year or so and I appreciate this new information; I wonder if any female scholars have expressed interest in translating it?
  - detcader 6y ago
    By the way, what does "A trans person writing in their genders’ voice would be fine" mean? Specifically the first part: "trans person writing in their genders’ voice"
- epilys 6y ago
  Reminds me of 'English as She is Spoke', a 19th century Portuguese-english phrase book that was also an invented translation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke
mtalantikite 6y ago
I have a copy of this author’s translations of the Therigatha and really enjoyed it both for it’s insight and historical importance (this looks to be a new paperback release of that older one). That some Buddhist communities don’t have female sadhaks never really made sense to me, as it always felt clear that the Buddha taught women regardless of social position, and the Therigatha highlights that. It has poems from women across the spectrum, from high caste women from wealthy families to former sex workers. A monk some friends of mine ordained with when we were young and out of college has a translation of some of the Therigatha for those interested (pdf warning) https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/Ebooks/TheragathaTherigatha200826.pdf https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/Ebooks/Theragat...

49 points by diodorus 6y ago

This article is particularly noteworthy in the context of a more recent "translation" of the same poems, The First Free Women, which attracted a lot of criticism from Buddhists for being largely invented (by a male author) rather than translated: https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/ https://lokanta.github.io/2021/01/21/curious-case/

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
Shambhala is an odd publisher. On one hand, it has produced a few editions of classical Asian texts that are almost (but never quite) of equal quality to a scholarly press – Cleary’s translation of the Avatamsakasutra comes to mind. On the other hand, Shambhala have put out many supposed translations of classics that are just the fanciful imagination of the translator (who in some cases doesn’t actually have any training in the source language), but they sure sound hip and so they sell well to naïve buyers.
- aarpmcgee 6y ago
  I'm curious. Can you offer any names of such translations?
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Of renderings instead of actual translations? One of the most notorious examples is Coleman Barks’ "translations" of Rumi that Shambhala put out. Barks does not actually know Persian, and his versions of Rumi are based on existing English translations along with his own personal inspirations.
    - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
      At least when it comes to poetry, in a perfect case you'd have a totally fluent bilingual translator who also happens to be a poet. That's not very common (David Hinton[1] comes to mind) but far more often you either have a language scholar with a tin ear, or a poet who's faking a knowledge of the source material. That latter case can make for some good poetry, but it won't be an 'accurate' translation for sure. 1: https://poets.org/poet/david-hinton https://poets.org/poet/david-hinton
      - aarpmcgee 6y ago
        Stoked to see Hinton in a HN thread. I refer to his I Ching translation often.
detcader 6y ago
Interesting, I have been hearing of this book for the past year or so and I appreciate this new information; I wonder if any female scholars have expressed interest in translating it?
- detcader 6y ago
  By the way, what does "A trans person writing in their genders’ voice would be fine" mean? Specifically the first part: "trans person writing in their genders’ voice"
epilys 6y ago
Reminds me of 'English as She is Spoke', a 19th century Portuguese-english phrase book that was also an invented translation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke

mtalantikite 6y ago

I have a copy of this author’s translations of the Therigatha and really enjoyed it both for it’s insight and historical importance (this looks to be a new paperback release of that older one). That some Buddhist communities don’t have female sadhaks never really made sense to me, as it always felt clear that the Buddha taught women regardless of social position, and the Therigatha highlights that. It has poems from women across the spectrum, from high caste women from wealthy families to former sex workers. A monk some friends of mine ordained with when we were young and out of college has a translation of some of the Therigatha for those interested (pdf warning) https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/Ebooks/TheragathaTherigatha200826.pdf https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/Ebooks/Theragat...