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Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreadi

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I haven't had any work reason to interact with again. Just listening in meetings there are many people like me who want to go back to office (at least part time) this means that a lot of meetings will again be held face-to-face and while there will be a token effort to clue in the remote people it will fall off fast not to mention all of the ad-hoc meetings that happen at the desks or hall ways. I am not saying that you are wrong, but that being full time remote employee in a company that is not 100% remote all the time is way different than being the only (or one of the few) full time remote employee in a team. I still intend on being remote couple days a week, but I know for a fact already that the amount of time I sit in voice chat with the remote team memebers during the day will be close to zero on the days I am at the office.

the_local_host 6y ago
It seems like you're anticipating a divergence (or at least communications gap) between the generally-in-office and generally-remote sets of employees. Have you considered that it might be the remote employees that are more productive? The benefits you've stated for in-office work are that you will be more likely to hit the gym, get low-cost healthy food, interact with random non-teammates, and meet in-person, none of which are slam-dunks for the company bottom line.
- nextlevelwizard 6y ago
  Considering many people are working less hours since there is no monitoring and in general dicking around during the day (I have seen some people playing video games during the work day) I highly doubt in general remoting has increased any productivity.
citizenkeen 6y ago
I think a lot of people who enjoy remote are going to have a rude wake-up when offices go hybrid. Before Covid, half my meetings weren't scheduled. They just happened in a hallway. If I could grab a third person who I thought might have an opinion, we'd walk over to their office. But I'm not going to go find a Zoom setup unless I have to have their opinion. Which means we'll make the decision without them. Not out of malice, but because they're not there.
- ghaff 6y ago
  So, in other words, your company or at least your team has crappy processes. One of the silver linings of this past year is that things like running meeting docs have become even more of a thing. (They mostly already were because we're a very distributed company.) ADDED: I get your preference but it really doesn't scale. How does that work once there are multiple offices, external agencies, people who need to travel a lot, etc.?
mulmen 6y ago
My team had two remote people before the pandemic and my company has global offices so including remote workers is already something we understand. I fully expect to have to go in to the office one or two days a week but the logistics are easier with remote meetings. There's no need to find an empty room, I don't have to take time to walk to your floor, etc. > I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I haven't had any work reason to interact with again. These are personal problems. I have been exercising more while WFH because I have more time. You can't expect your coworkers to change their lives because you get a personal time-management or networking benefit.
- nextlevelwizard 6y ago
  > You can't expect your coworkers to change their lives because you get a personal time-management or networking benefit. But somehow you can expect your coworkers to change their actions because you want to be full remote in a company that does not enforce full remote?
MattGaiser 6y ago
It also depends on how often you engage in a back and forth in meetings. I am an individual tech contributor. I don't oversee anything, mentor anyone, or manage anything. I am not the kind to challenge already made decisions. So meetings are largely one way information flow, as it seems to be for most of the developers I know. Write me a memo and I at least am in the same place 90% of the time.
falcolas 6y ago
> My team is really dreading the move to back to office > the amount of time I sit in voice chat with the remote team memebers during the day will be close to zero on the days I am at the office. Can I be frank? This sounds like an incredibly selfish attitude to take. "If you're not like me, I have no intention of accommodating you."
- nextlevelwizard 6y ago
  Communication is 10x better when you are face-to-face and the tech to accommodate remoters is fickle and just unnecessary extra layer. If we can get decisions done faster by excluding remote people then thats what is going to happen. And just the fact that if I am at the office people will come to my desk with their problems and the constant fiddling with headphones is annoying waste. I don't get why everyone thinks those of us who want to go back to office are the selfish ones for not bending over backwards over the people who prefer to work remote as if we didn't sign up for this when we started to work.
pdimitar 6y ago
> I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. Let's clarify that this is strictly specific to you. I and several other colleagues I chat with started doing more exercise due to the pandemic.
- nextlevelwizard 6y ago
  Good for you, but as this whole discussion is about differences between people only time I can get my self to the gym is first thing in the morning before work. Which in turn means it is way easier to get dressed, get to gym, and then go to office when the office isn't at home. Now way easiest decision is to just snooze the alarm and continue sleeping until work starts whenever there is any obstacle in the way. Same with food. If I just sit inside my house 24/7 with the lockdown I am way more likely to pour my energy in hobbies and other activities. There are no fancy food grocery delivery systems where I live, so only options are to go to grocery store or order food and before the decision was easy because the grocery store was on the way to work, so "I might as well" make the stop. Now I just work for 8 hours straight, feel hangry, order some shitty food, work 8 hours on side project and do the same. Sure this is a personal problem as many here like to point out, but just remember that when you are left out of decision making since you aren't part of the office that will be your personal problem. If my employer decides to go fully remote it is fine that I have to find another place to work, I have no problems with that. I hope the remoters will view it the same way if things dont work out for them.

the_local_host 6y ago

It seems like you're anticipating a divergence (or at least communications gap) between the generally-in-office and generally-remote sets of employees. Have you considered that it might be the remote employees that are more productive? The benefits you've stated for in-office work are that you will be more likely to hit the gym, get low-cost healthy food, interact with random non-teammates, and meet in-person, none of which are slam-dunks for the company bottom line.

nextlevelwizard 6y ago
Considering many people are working less hours since there is no monitoring and in general dicking around during the day (I have seen some people playing video games during the work day) I highly doubt in general remoting has increased any productivity.

citizenkeen 6y ago

I think a lot of people who enjoy remote are going to have a rude wake-up when offices go hybrid. Before Covid, half my meetings weren't scheduled. They just happened in a hallway. If I could grab a third person who I thought might have an opinion, we'd walk over to their office. But I'm not going to go find a Zoom setup unless I have to have their opinion. Which means we'll make the decision without them. Not out of malice, but because they're not there.

ghaff 6y ago
So, in other words, your company or at least your team has crappy processes. One of the silver linings of this past year is that things like running meeting docs have become even more of a thing. (They mostly already were because we're a very distributed company.) ADDED: I get your preference but it really doesn't scale. How does that work once there are multiple offices, external agencies, people who need to travel a lot, etc.?

mulmen 6y ago

My team had two remote people before the pandemic and my company has global offices so including remote workers is already something we understand. I fully expect to have to go in to the office one or two days a week but the logistics are easier with remote meetings. There's no need to find an empty room, I don't have to take time to walk to your floor, etc. > I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I haven't had any work reason to interact with again. These are personal problems. I have been exercising more while WFH because I have more time. You can't expect your coworkers to change their lives because you get a personal time-management or networking benefit.

nextlevelwizard 6y ago
> You can't expect your coworkers to change their lives because you get a personal time-management or networking benefit. But somehow you can expect your coworkers to change their actions because you want to be full remote in a company that does not enforce full remote?

MattGaiser 6y ago

It also depends on how often you engage in a back and forth in meetings. I am an individual tech contributor. I don't oversee anything, mentor anyone, or manage anything. I am not the kind to challenge already made decisions. So meetings are largely one way information flow, as it seems to be for most of the developers I know. Write me a memo and I at least am in the same place 90% of the time.

falcolas 6y ago

> My team is really dreading the move to back to office > the amount of time I sit in voice chat with the remote team memebers during the day will be close to zero on the days I am at the office. Can I be frank? This sounds like an incredibly selfish attitude to take. "If you're not like me, I have no intention of accommodating you."

nextlevelwizard 6y ago
Communication is 10x better when you are face-to-face and the tech to accommodate remoters is fickle and just unnecessary extra layer. If we can get decisions done faster by excluding remote people then thats what is going to happen. And just the fact that if I am at the office people will come to my desk with their problems and the constant fiddling with headphones is annoying waste. I don't get why everyone thinks those of us who want to go back to office are the selfish ones for not bending over backwards over the people who prefer to work remote as if we didn't sign up for this when we started to work.

pdimitar 6y ago

> I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. Let's clarify that this is strictly specific to you. I and several other colleagues I chat with started doing more exercise due to the pandemic.

nextlevelwizard 6y ago
Good for you, but as this whole discussion is about differences between people only time I can get my self to the gym is first thing in the morning before work. Which in turn means it is way easier to get dressed, get to gym, and then go to office when the office isn't at home. Now way easiest decision is to just snooze the alarm and continue sleeping until work starts whenever there is any obstacle in the way. Same with food. If I just sit inside my house 24/7 with the lockdown I am way more likely to pour my energy in hobbies and other activities. There are no fancy food grocery delivery systems where I live, so only options are to go to grocery store or order food and before the decision was easy because the grocery store was on the way to work, so "I might as well" make the stop. Now I just work for 8 hours straight, feel hangry, order some shitty food, work 8 hours on side project and do the same. Sure this is a personal problem as many here like to point out, but just remember that when you are left out of decision making since you aren't part of the office that will be your personal problem. If my employer decides to go fully remote it is fine that I have to find another place to work, I have no problems with that. I hope the remoters will view it the same way if things dont work out for them.