3 ms·

> Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? No, absolutely not. As my cow

by mulmen 6y ago

> Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? No, absolutely not. As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. > Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually blocking me. No, you are blocked by whatever you are blocked by. Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine. > So only 1 person is able to work. If you can't do your job without also consuming my time in parallel what exactly are you contributing? If you are blocked and need input then go work on something else until you can get the input. This is elementary time management and respect for your coworkers.

benbristow 6y ago
I'm talking more about if I've got a story where something isn't clarified properly. The project I'm on at the minute, the stories really aren't well refined at-all so I need to talk to a project manager/architect-style character for something that I can't answer myself because I simply don't know. I've said things about doing refinement sessions etc. but they've never surfaced. What you say sounds pretty selfish though. If someone came to me and asked for help with something I'd be happy to drop tools and come and help as I'm not just a 'colleague', I'm a team member.
- mulmen 6y ago
  It's not selfish at all. I treat other people the same way. I am eager to help teammates with their problems and frequently do. If they have a question they can send me an IM or email and I will respond when I have time to answer. Interrupting other people to solve your problems is selfish. If you need clarification then send an email, add a comment in your issue tracker or set up a meeting. There's no reason to interrupt someone doing productive work to get clarification on a story. You should be able to manage parallel stories and make progress as you get clarification.
  - mym1990 6y ago
    I think I get it now. You're basically who Gilfoyle was representing in SV! It makes sense now
abduhl 6y ago
It sounds like you want to be a contractor, not an employee. I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" and does not include language such as "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone."
- mulmen 6y ago
  > I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" Yes, all of those things are true and I do all of those things. I am speaking specifically about interrupting a coworker who is doing productive work. > "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone." I didn't say anything about this. Respecting your coworkers time does not require any of it.
  - Closi 6y ago
    > "As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. You are blocked by whatever you are blocked by. Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine." What part of this statement says 'team player' to you? The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your problem, because it is the teams problem. What you are describing is being assigned a list of stuff and working on it independently, then not helping anyone else unless it's convenient for you. This is colloquially called 'not being a team player'.
    - mulmen 6y ago
      > What part of this statement says 'team player' to you? The part where each member of the team is trusted with their own time management. I will also not interrupt you when you are working, because I respect you and your time. > The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your problem, because it is the teams problem. Yeah, no. The team has problems so we divide the work. Each of us takes ownership for some small part of it. Asking for input from teammates is fine, that is the responsibility of that owner. But that doesn't mean they can interrupt someone to get it. To be an effective teammate you need to earn the respect of your peers and interrupting will undermine that trust long term. Obviously I want my coworkers to solve their problems because we all work toward a common goal and of course I provide input to help them do that.
mym1990 6y ago
This seems to be a pretty black and white comment when in reality a lot of these points are very grey. Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything. Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'. Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but depending on the organization or team, most problems in today's businesses are team efforts, and require team collaboration. Having blinders with comments like 'solving your problems is your problem' is a great way to overlook when a problem someone is having is actually YOUR problem because you overlooked a bit of code or configuration or documentation.
- mulmen 6y ago
  > Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything. That's not what I said. My comment was about working in parallel and demanding immediate coworker input to advance. > Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'. The situation is not asking for help in person, it is interrupting to ask for help. > Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but depending on the organization or team, most problems in today's businesses are team efforts, and require team collaboration. Having blinders with comments like 'solving your problems is your problem' is a great way to overlook when a problem someone is having is actually YOUR problem because you overlooked a bit of code or configuration or documentation. I never said anything about working in silos. We still have a daily standup, we still do sprint planning, we still to regular operations reviews. I take ownership for my own actions and deliverables and help coworkers. This is simply a matter of how to request that assistance and the expectations around when that is provided.
  - mym1990 6y ago
    I'm not a parrot that will recite word for word what you wrote. Yes you didn't say anything about silos, but signaling to people that their problems are never your problems is a great way to discourage that person sharing any more information with you. The different agile rituals are a great way to get broad understanding on whats happening, but they will never capture the small problems that come up during the time in between. Asking for help in person is literally interrupting someone, no matter what they are doing because their attention has to be re-directed from whatever they were doing to you. So there is no meaningful difference between asking for help and interrupting to ask for help. But through social cues I can tell what level of concentration you might be on, and with some precision judge when a good time might be to check in. Hell, I will definitely be wrong some of the time, but that's just life. The situation is obviously different for someone that is always co-dependent on others for getting work done.
morelisp 6y ago
> Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine. No, solving the company's problems is both our problems. You have a tremendously adversarial attitude toward your coworkers. Why don't you trust them to know the cost of interrupting you and decide whether or not it's a net gain?
- mulmen 6y ago
  > No, solving the company's problems is both our problems. Yes, this requires effective collaboration. > You have a tremendously adversarial attitude toward your coworkers. I do not have an adversarial attitude toward my coworkers. In fact I am very well liked by the people I work with. Probably because I treat them with respect. > Why don't you trust them to know the cost of interrupting you and decide whether or not it's a net gain? How can they possibly know this? That would require everyone on the team having complete knowledge of what everyone else is doing at all times. Further, if you believe you know more than your coworker about their situation then it speaks to a distrust of their abilities.
citizenkeen 6y ago
If someone says "Hey, you got a minute?" and you can't handle that five second interruption and you aren't comfortable saying "How about in half an hour?", that speaks more to you than others.
- mulmen 6y ago
  There's no such thing as a five second interruption. Once my concentration has been broken that is a ~15 minute process to get back into a flow state. This is human psychology. There's nothing wrong with me being distracted by distractions. Asking "hey you got a minute?" is a waste of everyone's time because either the answer is "yes" and you could have asked your question already or the answer is "no" and you just disrupted someone who was doing productive work and still doesn't know if your actual question is worth answering right now. Just ask your question and I will answer it when I have time. This is why it is better to ask in email, IM or a meeting, depending on the nature of the question.
  - citizenkeen 6y ago
    If I had a coworker who reacted to interruptions the way you describe, I just wouldn't involve them. I'd grab other people and make decisions without them. I'm sure you react to interruptions the way you describe, but I wouldn't treat it as a universal. Like I said, everything you're writing speaks to you.
    - mulmen 6y ago
      I encourage you to review the concept of "flow". You may be missing out on valuable input from capable contributors by excluding them for having a regular human reaction to interruption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
  - dzhiurgis 6y ago
    How about disabling notifications when you are in flow and checking messages after you done. Effectively same as putting on headphones when in office.

by mulmen 6y ago

benbristow 6y ago

I'm talking more about if I've got a story where something isn't clarified properly. The project I'm on at the minute, the stories really aren't well refined at-all so I need to talk to a project manager/architect-style character for something that I can't answer myself because I simply don't know. I've said things about doing refinement sessions etc. but they've never surfaced. What you say sounds pretty selfish though. If someone came to me and asked for help with something I'd be happy to drop tools and come and help as I'm not just a 'colleague', I'm a team member.

mulmen 6y ago
It's not selfish at all. I treat other people the same way. I am eager to help teammates with their problems and frequently do. If they have a question they can send me an IM or email and I will respond when I have time to answer. Interrupting other people to solve your problems is selfish. If you need clarification then send an email, add a comment in your issue tracker or set up a meeting. There's no reason to interrupt someone doing productive work to get clarification on a story. You should be able to manage parallel stories and make progress as you get clarification.
- mym1990 6y ago
  I think I get it now. You're basically who Gilfoyle was representing in SV! It makes sense now

abduhl 6y ago

It sounds like you want to be a contractor, not an employee. I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" and does not include language such as "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone."

mulmen 6y ago
> I would imagine that your job description, if it exists, includes language such as "teamwork," "mentoring," and "problem solving" Yes, all of those things are true and I do all of those things. I am speaking specifically about interrupting a coworker who is doing productive work. > "siloed," "completely independent," and "unanswerable to anyone." I didn't say anything about this. Respecting your coworkers time does not require any of it.
- Closi 6y ago
  > "As my coworker you have no right to my time, at all. Certainly not on-demand. You are in no position to prioritize my time, especially in the context of you finishing your task. You are blocked by whatever you are blocked by. Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine." What part of this statement says 'team player' to you? The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your problem, because it is the teams problem. What you are describing is being assigned a list of stuff and working on it independently, then not helping anyone else unless it's convenient for you. This is colloquially called 'not being a team player'.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    > What part of this statement says 'team player' to you? The part where each member of the team is trusted with their own time management. I will also not interrupt you when you are working, because I respect you and your time. > The whole part about working as a team-player is that solving their problems is your problem, because it is the teams problem. Yeah, no. The team has problems so we divide the work. Each of us takes ownership for some small part of it. Asking for input from teammates is fine, that is the responsibility of that owner. But that doesn't mean they can interrupt someone to get it. To be an effective teammate you need to earn the respect of your peers and interrupting will undermine that trust long term. Obviously I want my coworkers to solve their problems because we all work toward a common goal and of course I provide input to help them do that.

mym1990 6y ago

This seems to be a pretty black and white comment when in reality a lot of these points are very grey. Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything. Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'. Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but depending on the organization or team, most problems in today's businesses are team efforts, and require team collaboration. Having blinders with comments like 'solving your problems is your problem' is a great way to overlook when a problem someone is having is actually YOUR problem because you overlooked a bit of code or configuration or documentation.

mulmen 6y ago
> Just because I ask you in person for help from time to time does not equate to me not contributing anything. That's not what I said. My comment was about working in parallel and demanding immediate coworker input to advance. > Just because someone asks you for help in person does not mean you can't say 'no, can you try me at this time or send me an email detailing the issue'. The situation is not asking for help in person, it is interrupting to ask for help. > Solving problems can be a siloed experience, but depending on the organization or team, most problems in today's businesses are team efforts, and require team collaboration. Having blinders with comments like 'solving your problems is your problem' is a great way to overlook when a problem someone is having is actually YOUR problem because you overlooked a bit of code or configuration or documentation. I never said anything about working in silos. We still have a daily standup, we still do sprint planning, we still to regular operations reviews. I take ownership for my own actions and deliverables and help coworkers. This is simply a matter of how to request that assistance and the expectations around when that is provided.
- mym1990 6y ago
  I'm not a parrot that will recite word for word what you wrote. Yes you didn't say anything about silos, but signaling to people that their problems are never your problems is a great way to discourage that person sharing any more information with you. The different agile rituals are a great way to get broad understanding on whats happening, but they will never capture the small problems that come up during the time in between. Asking for help in person is literally interrupting someone, no matter what they are doing because their attention has to be re-directed from whatever they were doing to you. So there is no meaningful difference between asking for help and interrupting to ask for help. But through social cues I can tell what level of concentration you might be on, and with some precision judge when a good time might be to check in. Hell, I will definitely be wrong some of the time, but that's just life. The situation is obviously different for someone that is always co-dependent on others for getting work done.

morelisp 6y ago

> Solving your problems is your problem. Not mine. No, solving the company's problems is both our problems. You have a tremendously adversarial attitude toward your coworkers. Why don't you trust them to know the cost of interrupting you and decide whether or not it's a net gain?

mulmen 6y ago
> No, solving the company's problems is both our problems. Yes, this requires effective collaboration. > You have a tremendously adversarial attitude toward your coworkers. I do not have an adversarial attitude toward my coworkers. In fact I am very well liked by the people I work with. Probably because I treat them with respect. > Why don't you trust them to know the cost of interrupting you and decide whether or not it's a net gain? How can they possibly know this? That would require everyone on the team having complete knowledge of what everyone else is doing at all times. Further, if you believe you know more than your coworker about their situation then it speaks to a distrust of their abilities.

citizenkeen 6y ago

If someone says "Hey, you got a minute?" and you can't handle that five second interruption and you aren't comfortable saying "How about in half an hour?", that speaks more to you than others.

mulmen 6y ago
There's no such thing as a five second interruption. Once my concentration has been broken that is a ~15 minute process to get back into a flow state. This is human psychology. There's nothing wrong with me being distracted by distractions. Asking "hey you got a minute?" is a waste of everyone's time because either the answer is "yes" and you could have asked your question already or the answer is "no" and you just disrupted someone who was doing productive work and still doesn't know if your actual question is worth answering right now. Just ask your question and I will answer it when I have time. This is why it is better to ask in email, IM or a meeting, depending on the nature of the question.
- citizenkeen 6y ago
  If I had a coworker who reacted to interruptions the way you describe, I just wouldn't involve them. I'd grab other people and make decisions without them. I'm sure you react to interruptions the way you describe, but I wouldn't treat it as a universal. Like I said, everything you're writing speaks to you.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    I encourage you to review the concept of "flow". You may be missing out on valuable input from capable contributors by excluding them for having a regular human reaction to interruption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  How about disabling notifications when you are in flow and checking messages after you done. Effectively same as putting on headphones when in office.