10 ms·

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

by samr71 6y ago

laughingpine 6y ago
This is certainly going to vary from person to person, and will not be a _one size fits all_ kind of thing. I am the exact opposite, and the year of remote working has probably been the best and most healthy year of my work life.
- devilduck 6y ago
  This. I will agree to two days in an office if it is 100% crucial that I participate in office culture, but it is not really necessary for me and is much more of a negative than a positive for me.
- the_af 6y ago
  Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, and do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space and/or young kids? Those variables tend to make all the difference between "happy to work from home" and "about to experience a mental breakdown".
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    > Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, they have and I didn't care, because I don't need to leave my home to enjoy my life. If anything a fully remote world would be even better because then I can go live in the countryside and have my own land without having to see other humans > do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space yep, and we get along great. I love spending all day with my partner and we've never been happier individually or as a couple > young kids? I choose not to have kids specifically so I don't feel like I have to get away from my own home and family to feel sane. I've gotten the impression that the lockdown, pandemic world has been a brief breath of fresh air for the hermits, introverts, misanthropes of the world, and a taste for extroverts of how miserable it is for many of us to adapt to a world that doesn't accommodate our personalities and social preferences
    - the_af 6y ago
      I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). If I could I'd spend most of the day enjoying time with my daughter and give my employer about half an hour of my attention. Sadly, I need a full time job. If you can go live in a cabin in the woods, congrats! You're part of the elite. Please understand the rest of us who aren't. It makes all the sense in the world that affluent people with large houses or living in beautiful locations, without kids, or with antisocial tendencies ("hermits", as you put it) are doing well during this pandemic. What about the rest of us?
      - silicon2401 6y ago
        > I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). In that case it's a very different point and I understand the difficulty. But what does that have to do with remote work? Assuming the coronavirus is eventually under control, why not just work remote and send the kids off to a babysitter or wherever they would be while at the office? > and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). I feel like I often spend more time on meetings than actually coding so I can relate. Just buy a headset with a mic. Just like it's reasonable to invest thousands in a car if you have to commute to work, I think it's reasonable to invest at the very least 20 bucks on a convenience store headset to be able to focus a little better. If you can even splurge 100 bucks it's a big improvement. I'm physically closer to my partner than I was to my coworkers at my previous job, so I understand the concern, but I haven't had issues by just using headsets and muting as needed. > ("hermits", as you put it) are doing well during this pandemic. What about the rest of us? That was part of the point of my post. You've only had it rough for a year. What about us hermits for all the rest of human history when fully remote work has been a very rare luxury? For some of us, it's a countdown until we go back to a world that makes us as miserable for a lifetime as you've been for a year, except we won't have anybody fighting to let us keep the isolation and comfort we've been enjoying, whereas you have every world government and relevant expert sprinting to end this current way of life. It's frustrating to see people complain about being unhappy for such a short time and completely disregard how unhappy many people were with the old way of things and for how long
variable11 6y ago
Sociopaths need to groom victims face to face
rhacker 6y ago
why?
- etothepii 6y ago
  I can't speak for the poster but obvious issues include: * Having any kind of separation between work and home. * The requirement to have an office space that you likely pay quite a lot of rent for. * Lack of spontaneous interaction with co-workers (especially new ones)
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  I went from ~3-4 days in the office to full remote during the pandemic.. and then we gave up our office space since it was going "so well". I'm not quite ready to quit, but the office had tons of perks -- nice cafeteria / nice espresso / gym / beautiful setting in SF / casual face-time with the leadership / coworkers in different departments sharing a common space. Sure there was a commute involved, but I enjoyed getting out of the house. Hopefully things will be better post-pandemic and I'll get some of the social interaction by working out of coffee shops and from parks, but the quality of life improvement from changing from a "5 days/week in the office" to "3 days/week in the office" was substantially larger for me than going full remote.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Most workers don't have the perks you mention. It's an edge case for a small cohort of Silicon Valley tech workers out of the entire cohort of those who had to go remote. If your office experience was blah, or you had a long commute, you likely realized a lot of utility and benefit having your employer forced to support remote work.
    - decafninja 6y ago
      So much this. My office (investment bank) is dull, dreary, depressing, dystopian, Dilbertesque. Everyone must wear at least business casual (dress shirt, dress pants, dress shoes). We have none of the perks mentioned above. The commute is miserable. Very little sunlight. Even our coffee is an atrocity. This is probably standard fare for most old school non-tech companies. I've visited the offices of quite a few Silicon Valley tech companies. The atmosphere could not be more different. If I had to use an analogy, coming into my office is like checking into the local cheap motel. Going to a SV tech company office feels like it would be akin to checking into a hip and luxurious boutique hotel. I've said this before, and I know grass is greener on the other side, but if my office environment were better, I could imagine myself enjoying being at the office more. As it stands currently, it is outright depressing.
nkozyra 6y ago
Talking with various friends and people among my network I can say that it varies so much. Some people would prefer to never go in, some people (like myself) would prefer an office presence but no requirement to attend and others would prefer to eliminate remote work. I find this interesting because we tend to extrapolate our own thoughts and preferences to the general public. And this is kind of why working together is sometimes hard! We all want/expect/prefer different things in a working environment.
- musingsole 6y ago
  I wish employers would take this opportunity to scrutinize what it is that is valuable about working together in-person versus what it is that actually worked remotely. There are plenty of articles about better documentation protocols and this or that workflow to support remote work, but the reality is employees often feel pain on those fronts because of unspoken power hierarchies that gatekeep changes only from a set of approved clerics as opposed to whatever the organization structure would actually imply on paper.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- cjpearson 6y ago
  I've seen a lot of variance too. There are people on both sides of the argument who feel strongly. Whichever direction a company chooses there are going to be a lot of unhappy employees.
- grep_name 6y ago
  > would prefer an office presence but no requirement to attend What does this really mean in practice, though? I ask this as a person who just applied to a remote position at a company based in the city I live in. In theory, I'd be glad to come in in-person during the early months to facilitate training, but in practice I wouldn't trust the company not to stop viewing me as remote during that time.
  - 6y ago
listless 6y ago
If my company stayed remote only and others had open offices, were traveling, doing offsites, ect - I would leave for that company.
Spivak 6y ago
I'm kinda confused about this. The whole point of this is respecting each employee's preference for how they work best. If you work better in an office, like office culture, and want a separate space away from home then you should be able to have that. And now the office will only have people who feel the same way.
Igelau 6y ago
I'm losing my mind. I can't believe I actually used to think it would be preferable.
- anyfoo 6y ago
  It's super interesting, because after more than a year now, I'm barely at the "sometimes I guess it would be nice to see my coworkers and be able to talk about them in person". But, emphasis on "sometimes".

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

by samr71 6y ago

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

This is certainly going to vary from person to person, and will not be a _one size fits all_ kind of thing. I am the exact opposite, and the year of remote working has probably been the best and most healthy year of my work life.

devilduck 6y ago
This. I will agree to two days in an office if it is 100% crucial that I participate in office culture, but it is not really necessary for me and is much more of a negative than a positive for me.
the_af 6y ago
Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, and do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space and/or young kids? Those variables tend to make all the difference between "happy to work from home" and "about to experience a mental breakdown".
- silicon2401 6y ago
  > Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, they have and I didn't care, because I don't need to leave my home to enjoy my life. If anything a fully remote world would be even better because then I can go live in the countryside and have my own land without having to see other humans > do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space yep, and we get along great. I love spending all day with my partner and we've never been happier individually or as a couple > young kids? I choose not to have kids specifically so I don't feel like I have to get away from my own home and family to feel sane. I've gotten the impression that the lockdown, pandemic world has been a brief breath of fresh air for the hermits, introverts, misanthropes of the world, and a taste for extroverts of how miserable it is for many of us to adapt to a world that doesn't accommodate our personalities and social preferences
  - the_af 6y ago
    I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). If I could I'd spend most of the day enjoying time with my daughter and give my employer about half an hour of my attention. Sadly, I need a full time job. If you can go live in a cabin in the woods, congrats! You're part of the elite. Please understand the rest of us who aren't. It makes all the sense in the world that affluent people with large houses or living in beautiful locations, without kids, or with antisocial tendencies ("hermits", as you put it) are doing well during this pandemic. What about the rest of us?
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      > I think you misunderstood my point about spouse and kids: it wasn't about getting away from them, but about juggling work with kids vying for attention -- how do you explain a 2 year old that daddy has to work and cannot play with her for a few hours, and that she must stay locked in because there's a lockdown outside? -- and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). In that case it's a very different point and I understand the difficulty. But what does that have to do with remote work? Assuming the coronavirus is eventually under control, why not just work remote and send the kids off to a babysitter or wherever they would be while at the office? > and a couple sharing very limited space working at the same time (just think of Zoom meetings!). I feel like I often spend more time on meetings than actually coding so I can relate. Just buy a headset with a mic. Just like it's reasonable to invest thousands in a car if you have to commute to work, I think it's reasonable to invest at the very least 20 bucks on a convenience store headset to be able to focus a little better. If you can even splurge 100 bucks it's a big improvement. I'm physically closer to my partner than I was to my coworkers at my previous job, so I understand the concern, but I haven't had issues by just using headsets and muting as needed. > ("hermits", as you put it) are doing well during this pandemic. What about the rest of us? That was part of the point of my post. You've only had it rough for a year. What about us hermits for all the rest of human history when fully remote work has been a very rare luxury? For some of us, it's a countdown until we go back to a world that makes us as miserable for a lifetime as you've been for a year, except we won't have anybody fighting to let us keep the isolation and comfort we've been enjoying, whereas you have every world government and relevant expert sprinting to end this current way of life. It's frustrating to see people complain about being unhappy for such a short time and completely disregard how unhappy many people were with the old way of things and for how long

variable11 6y ago

Sociopaths need to groom victims face to face

rhacker 6y ago

why?

etothepii 6y ago
I can't speak for the poster but obvious issues include: * Having any kind of separation between work and home. * The requirement to have an office space that you likely pay quite a lot of rent for. * Lack of spontaneous interaction with co-workers (especially new ones)
mikeyouse 6y ago
I went from ~3-4 days in the office to full remote during the pandemic.. and then we gave up our office space since it was going "so well". I'm not quite ready to quit, but the office had tons of perks -- nice cafeteria / nice espresso / gym / beautiful setting in SF / casual face-time with the leadership / coworkers in different departments sharing a common space. Sure there was a commute involved, but I enjoyed getting out of the house. Hopefully things will be better post-pandemic and I'll get some of the social interaction by working out of coffee shops and from parks, but the quality of life improvement from changing from a "5 days/week in the office" to "3 days/week in the office" was substantially larger for me than going full remote.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Most workers don't have the perks you mention. It's an edge case for a small cohort of Silicon Valley tech workers out of the entire cohort of those who had to go remote. If your office experience was blah, or you had a long commute, you likely realized a lot of utility and benefit having your employer forced to support remote work.
  - decafninja 6y ago
    So much this. My office (investment bank) is dull, dreary, depressing, dystopian, Dilbertesque. Everyone must wear at least business casual (dress shirt, dress pants, dress shoes). We have none of the perks mentioned above. The commute is miserable. Very little sunlight. Even our coffee is an atrocity. This is probably standard fare for most old school non-tech companies. I've visited the offices of quite a few Silicon Valley tech companies. The atmosphere could not be more different. If I had to use an analogy, coming into my office is like checking into the local cheap motel. Going to a SV tech company office feels like it would be akin to checking into a hip and luxurious boutique hotel. I've said this before, and I know grass is greener on the other side, but if my office environment were better, I could imagine myself enjoying being at the office more. As it stands currently, it is outright depressing.

nkozyra 6y ago

Talking with various friends and people among my network I can say that it varies so much. Some people would prefer to never go in, some people (like myself) would prefer an office presence but no requirement to attend and others would prefer to eliminate remote work. I find this interesting because we tend to extrapolate our own thoughts and preferences to the general public. And this is kind of why working together is sometimes hard! We all want/expect/prefer different things in a working environment.

musingsole 6y ago
I wish employers would take this opportunity to scrutinize what it is that is valuable about working together in-person versus what it is that actually worked remotely. There are plenty of articles about better documentation protocols and this or that workflow to support remote work, but the reality is employees often feel pain on those fronts because of unspoken power hierarchies that gatekeep changes only from a set of approved clerics as opposed to whatever the organization structure would actually imply on paper.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
cjpearson 6y ago
I've seen a lot of variance too. There are people on both sides of the argument who feel strongly. Whichever direction a company chooses there are going to be a lot of unhappy employees.
grep_name 6y ago
> would prefer an office presence but no requirement to attend What does this really mean in practice, though? I ask this as a person who just applied to a remote position at a company based in the city I live in. In theory, I'd be glad to come in in-person during the early months to facilitate training, but in practice I wouldn't trust the company not to stop viewing me as remote during that time.
- 6y ago

listless 6y ago

If my company stayed remote only and others had open offices, were traveling, doing offsites, ect - I would leave for that company.

Spivak 6y ago

I'm kinda confused about this. The whole point of this is respecting each employee's preference for how they work best. If you work better in an office, like office culture, and want a separate space away from home then you should be able to have that. And now the office will only have people who feel the same way.

Igelau 6y ago

I'm losing my mind. I can't believe I actually used to think it would be preferable.

anyfoo 6y ago
It's super interesting, because after more than a year now, I'm barely at the "sometimes I guess it would be nice to see my coworkers and be able to talk about them in person". But, emphasis on "sometimes".