17 ms·

34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

448 points by edoreld 6y ago

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
I'm one of these workers. We decided to pack up and move from the bay area to a "tier 2" city pretty early in the pandemic and there's no way I'm going back. My only regret is not moving earlier. We sold our home we purchased in 2017 and were able to buy a very nice home here in cash, nearly 40% of the total cost coming from equity in that sale. Without a mortgage the budget calculus changes significantly.
kobieyc 6y ago
Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted.
- bigth 6y ago
  Because life doesn't exist outside of work?
  - Scarblac 6y ago
    Why only have life outside of work, and not both?
    - deleted 6y ago
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    - duckfang 6y ago
      Because your "family's parents" (aka: managerial class) have absolutely no compunctions about firing you at the drop of a hat, and thus evicting you from your "work family". I'm not saying to be rude - be nice obviously... But these people, you included, are working for money at a place that has money. And I would much rather have the time and socialize at events and places that aren't related to a work function. In that case, me leaving a job for whatever reason doesn't automatically remove my "friends". (And no, I don't think many are actual friends at a workplace. Politics and decorum are definitely a thing.)
      - Scarblac 6y ago
        I don't live in the US, I won't be fired at the drop of a hat. They managers and colleagues are also just people I spend a lot of time with. I know a lot about their private lives and they about mine. I could work at other companies doing similar things for similar income but I stay at this one because I believe in the things it's trying to achieve with its products (not very successfully yet, but I do what I can to improve things...), and so do my colleagues. And yes, it all happens against a background of making money, but it's also a huge social thing. The two aren't opposites. I actually did leave this job at one point, still got invited to the company barbecue, and when my new job didn't go so well (didn't click with the culture there) and a few other programmers had left the old job, I got asked back and did. There are several ex-colleagues I still have contact with. I lead a boy scouts group, during summer camp last year we weren't allowed to go in public pools because of Covid, so I asked if we could use the pool at our founder's house because it was in the same area, and he thought that was a great idea so we did. In the end it's people you spend a lot of time with, of course it's social. (company size ~80 people, 20 years old)
- iagovar 6y ago
  I just have more life than work. I want to transition to developer (solo learning now), and having someone in my job over sighting my junior BS would be helpful, but honestly I just have a much more nice life now. I work surrounded by nature sounds. Birds, a slight brise, sun... Man, no office can compete with this.
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  I'm an extrovert and I went fully remote. I have much more fulfilling interactions with my wife and small children throughout the day compared to basically anything I experienced at work. I can leave the house at 5:00 PM on the dot, so we can all go out and have fun with other friends and families (in my city we're not locked down at all) much earlier in the day compared to old commute times. I do miss the free food and fun lunches, but I don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the "interaction" stick.
  - ishjoh 6y ago
    When I was in my 20's and lived in NYC, a lot of my social life was organized around work even though I had friends and was in a committed relationship. Networking events, tech talks, company outings, there was lots of things to fill up my calendar. Now that I'm in my 30's and I've moved to a smaller city to raise kids, it's all flipped. Family & friendships take the large majority of my free time and I only attend work events if I'm traveling for work anyways, which I haven't done since 2019. I imagine if I was still living the life I did when I was in my 20's, I would really miss those interactions.
- Jackpillar 6y ago
  This implies that your entire social life exists at your occupation which is the most depressing thing I've ever heard.
  - Scarblac 6y ago
    No, it implies that he values the social interaction in the office, not that that's his entire social life.
- nomy99 6y ago
  Ok so I'll share my personal anecdote. I was of the opinion that I wanted to go back to work. I was tired of the remote work, feeling trapped in my apartment. My office wasn't calling us back till at least July, so I had to figure out a solution -- this was affecting my mental health! So I signed up for wework. Initially it was great, the change in scenery and socializing was a welcome change. However I quickly got very exhausted. My wework was down the street, yet I was getting exhausted on a daily basis. I cancelled my membership and now I am working from home and much happier than before. I think we underestimate how hard it will be readjust from no commute/mental simulation from the environment to full blown pre pandemic lifestyle.
  - ehershey 6y ago
    Can you elaborate on what was so exhausting? This is a super interesting anecdote to hear!
    - nomy99 6y ago
      Yes I think it was a cumulation of these things. (I am adding more points as I become aware of it. I never really considered why I stopped going, but I knew that I would never go back to wework). 1) Having to wear a mask for 8 hours a day. I couldn't breathe properly. Also, generally poorer ventilation compared to my apartment -- I sit beside a window. 2) Couldn't freely engage in meetings -- especially the technical ones. I was the only engineer there and I could feel how flabbergasted people were of what I was saying. 3) Constant dread of hunger; at home I always had snacks, fridge nearby, but at wework I had to either responsibly pack the lunch/snacks or routinely go out the convenience store. 4) Exhaustion from the environment stimulus. What I mean is, my mind is always subconsciously scanning the room (cleaning lady, elevators, telephone ring, coworker A-Z). At the end of each day I was mentally tired which led me to skip my gym workouts. Now that I'm back home, I have been back to regularly hitting the gym. 5) No large screen monitor; context switching for screen real estate is also exhausting. Overall I think my experience at my employer could be different since point 2, 3, 5 would be mute.
- wewake 6y ago
  Study finds that 34% of humans are sick of stressful and exhausting daily commute to work.
- bigwavedave 6y ago
  > Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted. Eh, I'm not so sure it's just an intro/extro kind of thing. I and most of those quizzes (for whatever those are worth!) label me as an ambivert (an extroverted introvert- I'm good with people and excel at socializing, but it wears me out) and I'd still love to be remote for the rest of my life. Goodbye, open office plans. Goodbye, coworkers that don't shower, play music without headphones, and eat tuna melts at their desks. Goodbye, two hour daily commute. Goodbye, wearing pants during meetings. Okay, that last one was a poor attempt at humor, but I'd say the other three reasons are valid and not really related to introversion.
- J5892 6y ago
  I actually much prefer an in-office setting. But my desire for a short commute and the ability to not live in the Bay Area is much stronger.
- axguscbklp 6y ago
  I love going out and meeting new people and partying. I hate going to the office. Strongly preferring remote work is not just an introvert thing.
MattGaiser 6y ago
At any given point, half of workers are contemplating leaving. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-considering-quitting-their-jobs-right-now.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-con... The typical office worker spends a half hour searching for new jobs at work every day. https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... I’m not sure this is a revolution or just that plenty of people have no real attachment to their employer.
- tdeck 6y ago
  I don't find that second statistic believable. As someone who though almost every day about leaving a past job, even I didn't spend 30 minutes per day looking at job listings. In fact for a while I had to force myself to spend 20 minutes a day on that activity.
  - MattGaiser 6y ago
    Interesting. I am not leaving anytime soon, but can easily spend 15-20 minutes a day replying to recruiters just in case I one day need them and just browsing what pops up as recommended on LinkedIn.
  - sigstoat 6y ago
    i had an officemate who spent about ~7.5 hours a day looking at job listings and reading things like "how to quit your soul crushing day job and do what you always wanted". so she was holding the average up for you and 13 other folks.
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  - hinkley 6y ago
    That's a average, not a cluster on a histogram. If you spend 4 hours a week job hunting when you are looking in earnest, that puts you over half an hour a day (almost 50 minutes per workday)
samr71 6y ago
I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.
- laughingpine 6y ago
  This is certainly going to vary from person to person, and will not be a _one size fits all_ kind of thing. I am the exact opposite, and the year of remote working has probably been the best and most healthy year of my work life.
  - devilduck 6y ago
    This. I will agree to two days in an office if it is 100% crucial that I participate in office culture, but it is not really necessary for me and is much more of a negative than a positive for me.
  - the_af 6y ago
    Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, and do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space and/or young kids? Those variables tend to make all the difference between "happy to work from home" and "about to experience a mental breakdown".
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      > Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, they have and I didn't care, because I don't need to leave my home to enjoy my life. If anything a fully remote world would be even better because then I can go live in the countryside and have my own land without having to see other humans > do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space yep, and we get along great. I love spending all day with my partner and we've never been happier individually or as a couple > young kids? I choose not to have kids specifically so I don't feel like I have to get away from my own home and family to feel sane. I've gotten the impression that the lockdown, pandemic world has been a brief breath of fresh air for the hermits, introverts, misanthropes of the world, and a taste for extroverts of how miserable it is for many of us to adapt to a world that doesn't accommodate our personalities and social preferences
tdeck 6y ago
I've been thinking about this too. I appreciate the benefits of the office, but I'm more productive than ever now that I can control my environment, commute, and schedule. If I have to go into work, that's about two hours of commuting each day. Where are those hours going to come from? I sure as hell don't want them coming out of my personal time, which always feels too full as it is.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  For me going remote was a huge improvement for my sanity. The loud office and the daily commute were wearing me down. But I understand other people prefer the office. Let's hope companies will adapt and support different personality traits. Problem is that most managers are extroverts and don't really understand the needs of introverts.
  - tartoran 6y ago
    Yes and this is the best time to make ourselves heard. We are powerless if we stay quiet and let others make decisions for us.
beastman82 6y ago
Talk is cheap
- Spivak 6y ago
  Very few people are going to up and quit. Many people if forced back into the office will start looking for remote work. Nobody wants to be the company that loses everyone who prefers remote work and is valuable enough to get another job.
ptmcc 6y ago
I don't believe it. I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. Especially if you filter out high paid/high job-security developers and similar people who might have the financial security to do so. People, particularly Americans, are shackled to their jobs for many reasons and most people are risk-averse. Despite myself being pro-remote, I think that we will see a sizable return to office-centric work culture over the next few years. The office may (hopefully) end up looking or feeling a bit different as an outcome. All the stories about the "end of the office" are overblown. Once it again becomes beneficial for your career and/or social life to participate in office culture people will come crawling back. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's what will happen.
- ashconnor 6y ago
  >I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. They can't. There's not nearly enough remote positions available.
- itsoktocry 6y ago
  >I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. I think the operative word in the survey results is "rather". That's a preference, not necessarily a decision.
- nend 6y ago
  Well yes, but if you dig down to what the authors of the study said: "1 in 3 professionals currently working from home would look for a new job if required to return to the office." They're not saying 34% of workers are going to quit instead of returning to the office, just that they will consider it. https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/management-tips/returning-to-the-office?utm_campaign=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_source=Press_Release https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/management-tips/returning-to...
AzzieElbab 6y ago
My guess that number will change when supplement checks stop coming.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Why? My job is now fully remote. I'm getting paid more than when I was in the office. Remote work != Not Working
  - AzzieElbab 6y ago
    I am in exactly same situation, but there will be a lot less remote work if they tell everyone to go back to office tomorrow
cm2012 6y ago
I would take half my salary if I had to to WFH full time. Luckily I don't have to!
toptal 6y ago
The study was done by Robert Half, a recruitment company that is extremely old school and works with mostly antiquated companies. This is simply confirmation that many of those companies are behind the curve in their culture and mindset.
lovedswain 6y ago
This sounds like a once in a lifetime industrial swamp-draining opportunity.. what do you suppose the correspondence is between folk having a hard time turning up in one location in the morning, and folk with a variety of other square peg/round hole work ethic 'features'. Don't get me wrong, in this scenario I'd most likely be a drainee, just pointing out the thought must have crossed the minds of a more than a few managers.
WORMS_EAT_WORMS 6y ago
Very interested in seeing the WTF happens with the housing market this year. Maybe a good indicator of truly how people feel about this vs random surveys. - Huge amount of people fleeing to suburbs last year. - Huge amount of people continuing to flee this year. - Lots of buyer regrets on hugely marked up homes as things normalize. - Bunch of workers getting called back into offices and people regretting commute times. - Bunch of people quitting jobs and regretting their expensive purchases as they can't find other competitive paying jobs that stay remote. Etc..
- pbuzbee 6y ago
  I wonder this too. People who bought houses outside of major urban metros either got in early and made a great purchase, OR they paid top dollar for something that won't keep its personal and/or financial value. Feels like it could still go either way.
otterley 6y ago
Headline doesn't match the content. The content says that the respondents would "look for a new job." The respondents did not say they would quit. Obviously, one can look for a new job while still working at a current employer, and then quit if the search is successful.
sokoloff 6y ago
Study is published by a staffing firm, who surveyed around 1000 people. It seems like the people who would respond to a staffing firm's survey might not be fully representative of the broader working population. I did not expect to enjoy working from home, but I thoroughly do. I feel like I can be almost as effective, but I sure wouldn't quit over a return to the office. (And I sure wouldn't be reachable by a staffing firm to be surveyed.)
- 1-6 6y ago
  Staffing firms have employees who are less integrated into the work environment of the host company.
deleted 6y ago
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jedberg 6y ago
This headline is clickbait. Read the actual survey. The actual survey says that 1/3 said they would start looking for a new job if they were no longer allowed to work remotely. But then 49% said they would be happy with a hybrid environment, where they only had to come in some of the time.
- dheera 6y ago
  Yes. The key here is that most of those 34% are probably talented, don't live within commute distance of an office of the company they work for, and have alternatives, so it makes sense that they would resign and take a different remote job instead of uprooting and moving their lives/families for non-remote work. People who prefer remote work come in largely two flavors: * People who do live within commute distance of their office but wish to work at home for various reasons * People who do not live within commute distance of their office and do not wish to move their home These two groups tend to think very differently about the problem.
- brewdad 6y ago
  I have no doubt many managers will screw up the hybrid environment by making it something like in-person on non-consecutive days. My ideal would be 3 consecutive days in the office and 4 days away. Remote work days plus a "weekend" that may or may not include Sat and Sun.
  - greedo 6y ago
    Oh they'll screw it up. They'll say it's "hybrid" but promotions will naturally go to those who get more face-time. So the employees wanting to play the office politics game will be quick to realize it's best to be in the office.
Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
I prefer working from the office. And people who code form their laptops from cafés, really? You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Definitely not my cup of tea.
- dj_mc_merlin 6y ago
  > You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Yes. I code the best on a shitty laptop with a small screen with no GPU. I'm not kidding, the more plain my computer is the better for programming. > Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Yes that's annoying. But the office isn't much better for me. That's why I usually code past 10PM. edit: also, damn you. You made me notice my fridge actually makes a sound and I can't unnotice it now.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    Sorry for that fridge, but sitting all day looking down at the screen is not healthy. Most ergonomic way to use screens is using a strictly vertical screen, the top of the screen must be on the same level as your eyes. Other ways are guaranteed to give neck problems and headaches in a few years.
- p0nce 6y ago
  > You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? I've did this for 4 years. On a 15" screen even. Your average public library is _way_ more silent that your average open space office. And the idea of working in cafés is that there is people, but no social pressure. Some people work better when being isolated like this. with a bit of training for the ever-moving style, the level of focus is very similar to a comfortable office ; without the chatter and interruptions.
- 6y ago
jedberg 6y ago
I'll bet 1/3 also said they would walk away if they had to keep working remotely. If we've learned anything from this year, it's that there is no consensus. Some people like to work in an office, some people like to work at home, and most people like the flexibility of doing both when they choose to. I think offices are here to stay, but maybe in some cases they will change to be more like coworking spaces for just one company, where every desk is "rented", to allow for hybrid situations where different teams can choose if they want to be remote or in person and which days they do that.
devilduck 6y ago
Most people only work because they have to in order to live, not because they love to work. I would rather quit than deal with how most other people perceive what work is "supposed to be"
mugivarra69 6y ago
i will leave if i HAVE to go to office more than 1 day a week.
deleted 6y ago
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blhack 6y ago
Absolutely on the other side of this. My wife and I are both 100% remote (except for some in person classes which we teach). We ended up renting an office (a really nice coworking space in Phoenix called industrious, which we have kindof fallen in love with). We pay for this out of our own pocket because it turns out that the amenities typical to an office are really nice. Our productivity is up substantially since we moved in here. Here's my prediction: the midpoint between work from home and going back to the office is going to be your employer paying for a coworking space like this for employees who want to be back in an office.
- foobiekr 6y ago
  But that’s not back in the office in terms of anything involving collaboration, it’s just getting out of the house. I think no companies would foot the bill for this. It’s more expensive than the amortized cost of an office and misses the key features that being in person brings.
anonu 6y ago
I envision a hybrid work environment. I would invest in off-site and event planning companies. Maybe even create a business that facilitates the entire planning process for companies. Every month or 2 everyone would fly out to a particular place - everyone could get some face time in, team-building activities, and then go back to WFH for the rest of the time.
k__ 6y ago
I left in 2013. Because of offices, but later I figured that working 8h and starting before 12 wasn't in my interest either. Now, that I work as a freelancer for 7 years, I don't think I can go back anymore. Employment feels like serfdom to me.
- marvin 6y ago
  I wonder how this will pan out for me. I'm increasingly thinking that just being employed is what's wrong for me. There's definitely something wrong, and it's not that I'm employed in the wrong place. It wouldn't get better just by switching jobs. Interesting to hear that some have had the same experience.
  - k__ 6y ago
    Yes. It didn't feel like "employment isn't for me" at first. I never wanted to be self-employed. But in the end employment turned out to be too much.
soheil 6y ago
34% should probably be 33.333...% or one third. In other words I doubt they know the accuracy of this number any more than roughly estimating it to about a third. Which if is the case makes the argument less convincing that we're seeing a completely new phenomenon as it pertains to remote workers.
postalrat 6y ago
34% of workers have been doing 34% of their job they've always hated and don't want to go back to 100%. Let them quit. Hopefully they find something that gives them more enjoyment.
aroundtown 6y ago
Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No coworkers interrupting me when I'm in the zone. I've saved between 8-10 hours per week in not commuting. Worse, I've had bosses who enjoy flexing by having meetings promptly at 8am, where you have to leave extra early because you travel at peak rush hour. I don't have to keep up appearances when I'm done with my work for the day or moment. If I'm waiting for responses or reviews, I can veg out, watch Netflix or play a video game, while staying on top of my email and work load. I've also taken to getting some of my house work done during this time. Laundry, mowed grass, exercise, lots of little things that used to get stacked up on the weekend. I never have to eat off my diet, or feign excuses for not wanting to eat another office provided carb loaded meal. I stock my own foods, and have a hot meal for lunch everyday. Finally, I don't have to smell the 2 smokers that spend a couple of hours smoking every single day nor do I have to sit next to someone with questionable personal hygeine. Yes Richard, you smell awful, and stink up half the office with your body odor and cigarettes.
- incrudible 6y ago
  > Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. If you can talk like that post-pandemic, why couldn't you walk like that pre-pandemic? You could've had a remote job then, too. I do like remote work, but it's not all upsides. If there's a big shift to remote work, it will suppress wages because now you can hire from across the country, where living expenses are low.
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    Personally I'd gladly take a pay cut for a fully remote job. Even SV salaries can't pay for the option to fully wfh if they choose to
  - 5y ago
AbraKdabra 6y ago
On the contrary, I'd give a rib to go back to the office. I'm completely fine doing just 2 remote days.
cblconfederate 6y ago
I feel like kinda sorry for people who have to work 8 hours from an office they don't control. I sympathize with those who voluntarily do that, but i think it should be a sort of labour right to work flexibly when possible
slumdev 6y ago
I wasn't included in this survey. Make that 34.001%. > Above all, that means freedom to set their own office hours. This only works if every person on a team can work independently. > That includes, for example, not needing to make chit-chat with co-workers. I've fallen in love with being able to hear myself think. (Also my espresso machine and my standing desk.)
annoyingnoob 6y ago
When can we talk about a 6 hour work day?
- devilduck 6y ago
  As soon as we can talk about all the type-A personalities that are working to ensure we will grind ourselves to death
- t-writescode 6y ago
  I think I'd prefer the 4-day, 8-hour-per-day work week over the 6-hour work day.
  - annoyingnoob 6y ago
    I've worked regular 40 our weeks, 9/80s with every other Friday off, and 4/10s with every Friday off. So, 8, 9, and 10 hour shifts. I still want a 6 hour day, 30 hours a week for the same pay. Longer days just are not as productive for me - I do my best work in abut 6 hours, the rest just isn't as productive. I think I would actually be more creative with more freedom in my day.
skeeter2020 6y ago
>> Just under half of all the surveyed WFH employees (49%) said they would prefer a hybrid work arrangement, dividing their time between the office and another location. Likewise, 26% said they want to remain fully remote, and 25% wanted to return to a full-time office situation So the real (less attractive) headline is "Typical Distribution in Demand" with the sub title of majority prefer more flexibility over less. Not really much there...
Dominisi 6y ago
For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.
- ianai 6y ago
  Yes and if you have a disagreement with said external friends it is highly unlikely to affect your professional life.
- mym1990 6y ago
  While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.
  - Bedon292 6y ago
    If you are driving to work the most you can do during that drive is listen to a podcast, news, or book on tape. Stuff I can already do at home doing other things too. But have to deal with things like someone just cut you off, and now you just forgot what was happening and need to rewind. It is far from a productive time period. Without having to commute I have a lot more time to do things that are much more valuable to me.
    - mym1990 6y ago
      I think most of the people missed my point. I didn't say commuting was a productive time, but it doesn't have to be a complete waste either. Sure, some days people are groggy or feel like zoning out on the commute, cool. But I feel like if 100% of the days are like that, and you actively complain about it...there is something that can change.
  - raziel2701 6y ago
    Nah let's fight for structural change instead of timidly complying and listening to podcasts while we become traffic and lose 22 days a year.
schoolornot 6y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding the justification for returning to the office. My only answer is "power play" and to justify existing capital investments in office space. If Salesforce, a 49,000 employee company can go remote-first, most other companies can as well.
pythonbase 6y ago
In my country most of the workforce that went remote during the pandemic is back at work. Seems WFH is more of a fad in the West.
sunilkumarc 6y ago
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deedubaya 6y ago
I think the next lesson most companies will be learning is that hybrid can be the worst of both worlds. Remote employees will feel out-of-the-loop, in-office employees will feel like they have to jump through hoops to include their remote colleagues. In-office employees will feel like they can't collaborate because of random WFH from a teammate. Remote employees will feel like they're getting dragged into the office because a teammate scheduled an in-person meeting on a day they weren't planning on going into the office. It's not impossible, but it is a lot harder to figure out than 100% of one or the other.
auiya 6y ago
Anecdotally, my last employer irresponsibly forced most people to return to the office at the height of the 2nd wave. I opted to... not. And I picked up a WFH role instead with a much better salary. So far it's been the best career choice I've ever made.
Black101 6y ago
Until the time comes to quit. When you live paycheck to paycheck, it isn't an easy decision...
shaftway 6y ago
I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I am chomping at the bit to get back into the office. I'm a Senior SWE. I've got ADHD. Work from home has been *catastrophic* for me. I don't have the ability to focus. I have no space in my home where I can work distraction-free, and no ability to create a space separate from my family. From home I can slack off for an hour... or two... or days, and nobody notices because my projects don't have deliverables that are measured in less than weeks. So I end up spending way too much time on non-work things and then berate myself for it afterwards. And then I do the same thing the next day. Being in the office gives me an externally-imposed structure that I just don't have the capability to impose on myself. I had the freedom to pick a few days here and there to WFH as needed, so I understand and can occasionally use the benefits. I also miss out on the serendipitous conversations. I know that a lot of people discount this as hand-waviness, but my team's culture around texting is disruptive in a way that I used to avoid in person. I felt like I had a much better handle on things in the office. My spouse runs her own company, and she has a free office, so I've been using that twice a week, and I make sure to medicate these days to make the most of them. But my output is still significantly lower than when I was in office. And I don't want to move to every day medication for a variety of reasons. I've read the comments suggesting that middle management thinks that their perceived impact is threatened in a work from home environment, but I am clearly not in that demographic. My work is either writing design docs and getting approval, leading a team to build these designs, or getting my hands dirty with the code itself. I don't care if other people work from home, as long as I'm not completely alone in the office. I just need the structure back. I feel like a junky who just needs "one more" whiteboard fix.
- shaftway 6y ago
  More context that didn't really fit in. Like I said, I'm free to WFH as I see fit as is. I probably averaged WFH less than one day a week, but sometimes it was as many as 3 days. I've done remote work for ~3 years for a few companies. This only worked because their expectations were significantly lower than my capabilities, so I was able to coast through with ~2 hours of work per day. As my role has increased, expectations have risen to match my capabilities. But I strongly feel like I only have those capabilities in the office.
- 6y ago
ryanSrich 6y ago
Lower than I'd like to see it. I think a lot of companies will justify forced commute because of this. 34% isn't even a majority.
AltruisticGapHN 6y ago
The worst part for me about working in the office is that my view is completely open. Zero privacy, distractions all day. Cubicles look like the caricature of boring office work, I don’t know but for me it would be awesome. Have a little corner I can personalize, not to have to see my colleagues eyes staring right into my face all da6 because they happen to sit right in front of me and have a better posture. Can I get a rest please? I’ll admit I suffer from trauma related stress but regardless how is it good for anybody? If we agree that separating work from personal time is important, why wouldn’t this apply AT work to separate focus, from socializing time?
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  Yeah, I always wondered why people complain about cubicles. To me, they seem much preferable to open spaces. For introverted people, this is torture.
Sodman 6y ago
We talk a lot about the "You can't make me go back" crowd, but I don't think we give much thought to the "Why do I have to bend over backwards to support a few fully remote co-workers" crowd. Being fully remote works well (for some people) when the whole team is remote. My biggest fear is that hybrid environments can bring out the worst of both worlds. I wonder how many people will quit if they're forced to work with remote-only employees on a regular basis? If you're having a meeting with 4 in-person co-workers and 2 remote co-workers, you have to make all sorts of accommodations for the remote folks that wouldn't be necessary for a meeting with the same 6 people in-person. "Can you repeat the question" / "Can you share your [other] screen?" / "Can we record this meeting?" / "Can you hold the camera up to the whiteboard?". Similarly, if you're in the minority of remote folks on a hybrid team, you'll be at a disadvantage. You're likely forced to either miss out on some context/discussions from not being present or not being able to hear, or become "that person" asking folks to repeat themselves or specially accommodate you in various ways. Not to mention missing out on face time with the boss[es boss], which can (rightly or wrongly) often factor in to promotion/raise discussions.
pacomerh 6y ago
I'm certainly not looking forward to go back to an office. Not sure about that 34%, seems pretty high, but I can believe this
ryanSrich 6y ago
I'm 100% convinced people who do not like remote work are not doing it correctly, or their company is not providing them with the tools and culture to do it correctly. Remote work done correctly is the best option for 99.9% of all jobs that exist.
- frompdx 6y ago
  I understand where some people are coming from. If you have kids, a small house or apartment, an incompatible work dynamic with your partner (they do sales, you do code), or some combination of those, WFH likely sucks. On the flip side, if you are in a position to do it right, it really is ideal. My partner and I have no kids, our house is large enough that we could each have our own office if we could agree on who gets stuck with the room in the basement, and our work dynamics are reasonably compatible on most days. We also purchased high quality office chairs at the start of the pandemic which have really been fantastic. I do agree that a lot of people could do at least something to make their WFH situation better. I have coworkers with lousy wireless internet in their house and I'm often mystified as to why they don't buy a better WAP. Or, I see them sitting in a crappy chair using their laptop instead of a proper keyboard and monitor even though they have the space for proper office furniture. I think these types of things are something employers should help out with and aren't terribly costly in the grand scheme of things.
ykevinator3 6y ago
If you don't have little kids, remote is so nice.
VioricaVanica 5y ago
There are advantages and disadvantages when it comes to remote work, but to be honest I don't really miss the office after I started to use https://myfocusspace.com https://myfocusspace.com which matches me with accountability buddies for 1 hour session of focused work and then we have 10 minutes at the end to network. This helps me with the variety I had when working from the office. Nonetheless, I think working remotely will stick with us for a long time.

448 points by edoreld 6y ago

I'm one of these workers. We decided to pack up and move from the bay area to a "tier 2" city pretty early in the pandemic and there's no way I'm going back. My only regret is not moving earlier. We sold our home we purchased in 2017 and were able to buy a very nice home here in cash, nearly 40% of the total cost coming from equity in that sale. Without a mortgage the budget calculus changes significantly.

kobieyc 6y ago

Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted.

bigth 6y ago
Because life doesn't exist outside of work?
- Scarblac 6y ago
  Why only have life outside of work, and not both?
  - deleted 6y ago
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  - duckfang 6y ago
    Because your "family's parents" (aka: managerial class) have absolutely no compunctions about firing you at the drop of a hat, and thus evicting you from your "work family". I'm not saying to be rude - be nice obviously... But these people, you included, are working for money at a place that has money. And I would much rather have the time and socialize at events and places that aren't related to a work function. In that case, me leaving a job for whatever reason doesn't automatically remove my "friends". (And no, I don't think many are actual friends at a workplace. Politics and decorum are definitely a thing.)
    - Scarblac 6y ago
      I don't live in the US, I won't be fired at the drop of a hat. They managers and colleagues are also just people I spend a lot of time with. I know a lot about their private lives and they about mine. I could work at other companies doing similar things for similar income but I stay at this one because I believe in the things it's trying to achieve with its products (not very successfully yet, but I do what I can to improve things...), and so do my colleagues. And yes, it all happens against a background of making money, but it's also a huge social thing. The two aren't opposites. I actually did leave this job at one point, still got invited to the company barbecue, and when my new job didn't go so well (didn't click with the culture there) and a few other programmers had left the old job, I got asked back and did. There are several ex-colleagues I still have contact with. I lead a boy scouts group, during summer camp last year we weren't allowed to go in public pools because of Covid, so I asked if we could use the pool at our founder's house because it was in the same area, and he thought that was a great idea so we did. In the end it's people you spend a lot of time with, of course it's social. (company size ~80 people, 20 years old)
iagovar 6y ago
I just have more life than work. I want to transition to developer (solo learning now), and having someone in my job over sighting my junior BS would be helpful, but honestly I just have a much more nice life now. I work surrounded by nature sounds. Birds, a slight brise, sun... Man, no office can compete with this.
ed25519FUUU 6y ago
I'm an extrovert and I went fully remote. I have much more fulfilling interactions with my wife and small children throughout the day compared to basically anything I experienced at work. I can leave the house at 5:00 PM on the dot, so we can all go out and have fun with other friends and families (in my city we're not locked down at all) much earlier in the day compared to old commute times. I do miss the free food and fun lunches, but I don't feel like I'm getting the short end of the "interaction" stick.
- ishjoh 6y ago
  When I was in my 20's and lived in NYC, a lot of my social life was organized around work even though I had friends and was in a committed relationship. Networking events, tech talks, company outings, there was lots of things to fill up my calendar. Now that I'm in my 30's and I've moved to a smaller city to raise kids, it's all flipped. Family & friendships take the large majority of my free time and I only attend work events if I'm traveling for work anyways, which I haven't done since 2019. I imagine if I was still living the life I did when I was in my 20's, I would really miss those interactions.
Jackpillar 6y ago
This implies that your entire social life exists at your occupation which is the most depressing thing I've ever heard.
- Scarblac 6y ago
  No, it implies that he values the social interaction in the office, not that that's his entire social life.
nomy99 6y ago
Ok so I'll share my personal anecdote. I was of the opinion that I wanted to go back to work. I was tired of the remote work, feeling trapped in my apartment. My office wasn't calling us back till at least July, so I had to figure out a solution -- this was affecting my mental health! So I signed up for wework. Initially it was great, the change in scenery and socializing was a welcome change. However I quickly got very exhausted. My wework was down the street, yet I was getting exhausted on a daily basis. I cancelled my membership and now I am working from home and much happier than before. I think we underestimate how hard it will be readjust from no commute/mental simulation from the environment to full blown pre pandemic lifestyle.
- ehershey 6y ago
  Can you elaborate on what was so exhausting? This is a super interesting anecdote to hear!
  - nomy99 6y ago
    Yes I think it was a cumulation of these things. (I am adding more points as I become aware of it. I never really considered why I stopped going, but I knew that I would never go back to wework). 1) Having to wear a mask for 8 hours a day. I couldn't breathe properly. Also, generally poorer ventilation compared to my apartment -- I sit beside a window. 2) Couldn't freely engage in meetings -- especially the technical ones. I was the only engineer there and I could feel how flabbergasted people were of what I was saying. 3) Constant dread of hunger; at home I always had snacks, fridge nearby, but at wework I had to either responsibly pack the lunch/snacks or routinely go out the convenience store. 4) Exhaustion from the environment stimulus. What I mean is, my mind is always subconsciously scanning the room (cleaning lady, elevators, telephone ring, coworker A-Z). At the end of each day I was mentally tired which led me to skip my gym workouts. Now that I'm back home, I have been back to regularly hitting the gym. 5) No large screen monitor; context switching for screen real estate is also exhausting. Overall I think my experience at my employer could be different since point 2, 3, 5 would be mute.
wewake 6y ago
Study finds that 34% of humans are sick of stressful and exhausting daily commute to work.
bigwavedave 6y ago
> Study finds that 34% of humans are strongly introverted. Eh, I'm not so sure it's just an intro/extro kind of thing. I and most of those quizzes (for whatever those are worth!) label me as an ambivert (an extroverted introvert- I'm good with people and excel at socializing, but it wears me out) and I'd still love to be remote for the rest of my life. Goodbye, open office plans. Goodbye, coworkers that don't shower, play music without headphones, and eat tuna melts at their desks. Goodbye, two hour daily commute. Goodbye, wearing pants during meetings. Okay, that last one was a poor attempt at humor, but I'd say the other three reasons are valid and not really related to introversion.
J5892 6y ago
I actually much prefer an in-office setting. But my desire for a short commute and the ability to not live in the Bay Area is much stronger.
axguscbklp 6y ago
I love going out and meeting new people and partying. I hate going to the office. Strongly preferring remote work is not just an introvert thing.

MattGaiser 6y ago

At any given point, half of workers are contemplating leaving. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-considering-quitting-their-jobs-right-now.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/27/47percent-of-workers-are-con... The typical office worker spends a half hour searching for new jobs at work every day. https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-productive-for-this-many-hours.html https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/in-an-8-hour-day-the-aver... I’m not sure this is a revolution or just that plenty of people have no real attachment to their employer.

tdeck 6y ago
I don't find that second statistic believable. As someone who though almost every day about leaving a past job, even I didn't spend 30 minutes per day looking at job listings. In fact for a while I had to force myself to spend 20 minutes a day on that activity.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Interesting. I am not leaving anytime soon, but can easily spend 15-20 minutes a day replying to recruiters just in case I one day need them and just browsing what pops up as recommended on LinkedIn.
- sigstoat 6y ago
  i had an officemate who spent about ~7.5 hours a day looking at job listings and reading things like "how to quit your soul crushing day job and do what you always wanted". so she was holding the average up for you and 13 other folks.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- hinkley 6y ago
  That's a average, not a cluster on a histogram. If you spend 4 hours a week job hunting when you are looking in earnest, that puts you over half an hour a day (almost 50 minutes per workday)

samr71 6y ago

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

laughingpine 6y ago
This is certainly going to vary from person to person, and will not be a _one size fits all_ kind of thing. I am the exact opposite, and the year of remote working has probably been the best and most healthy year of my work life.
- devilduck 6y ago
  This. I will agree to two days in an office if it is 100% crucial that I participate in office culture, but it is not really necessary for me and is much more of a negative than a positive for me.
- the_af 6y ago
  Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, and do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space and/or young kids? Those variables tend to make all the difference between "happy to work from home" and "about to experience a mental breakdown".
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    > Is your city/country implementing lockdowns, they have and I didn't care, because I don't need to leave my home to enjoy my life. If anything a fully remote world would be even better because then I can go live in the countryside and have my own land without having to see other humans > do you have a small apartment and/or your spouse working at the same time in the same space yep, and we get along great. I love spending all day with my partner and we've never been happier individually or as a couple > young kids? I choose not to have kids specifically so I don't feel like I have to get away from my own home and family to feel sane. I've gotten the impression that the lockdown, pandemic world has been a brief breath of fresh air for the hermits, introverts, misanthropes of the world, and a taste for extroverts of how miserable it is for many of us to adapt to a world that doesn't accommodate our personalities and social preferences

tdeck 6y ago

I've been thinking about this too. I appreciate the benefits of the office, but I'm more productive than ever now that I can control my environment, commute, and schedule. If I have to go into work, that's about two hours of commuting each day. Where are those hours going to come from? I sure as hell don't want them coming out of my personal time, which always feels too full as it is.

spaetzleesser 6y ago
For me going remote was a huge improvement for my sanity. The loud office and the daily commute were wearing me down. But I understand other people prefer the office. Let's hope companies will adapt and support different personality traits. Problem is that most managers are extroverts and don't really understand the needs of introverts.
- tartoran 6y ago
  Yes and this is the best time to make ourselves heard. We are powerless if we stay quiet and let others make decisions for us.

beastman82 6y ago

Talk is cheap

Spivak 6y ago
Very few people are going to up and quit. Many people if forced back into the office will start looking for remote work. Nobody wants to be the company that loses everyone who prefers remote work and is valuable enough to get another job.

ptmcc 6y ago

I don't believe it. I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. Especially if you filter out high paid/high job-security developers and similar people who might have the financial security to do so. People, particularly Americans, are shackled to their jobs for many reasons and most people are risk-averse. Despite myself being pro-remote, I think that we will see a sizable return to office-centric work culture over the next few years. The office may (hopefully) end up looking or feeling a bit different as an outcome. All the stories about the "end of the office" are overblown. Once it again becomes beneficial for your career and/or social life to participate in office culture people will come crawling back. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's what will happen.

ashconnor 6y ago
>I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. They can't. There's not nearly enough remote positions available.
itsoktocry 6y ago
>I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. I think the operative word in the survey results is "rather". That's a preference, not necessarily a decision.
nend 6y ago
Well yes, but if you dig down to what the authors of the study said: "1 in 3 professionals currently working from home would look for a new job if required to return to the office." They're not saying 34% of workers are going to quit instead of returning to the office, just that they will consider it. https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/management-tips/returning-to-the-office?utm_campaign=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_source=Press_Release https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/management-tips/returning-to...

AzzieElbab 6y ago

My guess that number will change when supplement checks stop coming.

Spivak 6y ago
Why? My job is now fully remote. I'm getting paid more than when I was in the office. Remote work != Not Working
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  I am in exactly same situation, but there will be a lot less remote work if they tell everyone to go back to office tomorrow

cm2012 6y ago

I would take half my salary if I had to to WFH full time. Luckily I don't have to!

toptal 6y ago

The study was done by Robert Half, a recruitment company that is extremely old school and works with mostly antiquated companies. This is simply confirmation that many of those companies are behind the curve in their culture and mindset.

lovedswain 6y ago

This sounds like a once in a lifetime industrial swamp-draining opportunity.. what do you suppose the correspondence is between folk having a hard time turning up in one location in the morning, and folk with a variety of other square peg/round hole work ethic 'features'. Don't get me wrong, in this scenario I'd most likely be a drainee, just pointing out the thought must have crossed the minds of a more than a few managers.

WORMS_EAT_WORMS 6y ago

Very interested in seeing the WTF happens with the housing market this year. Maybe a good indicator of truly how people feel about this vs random surveys. - Huge amount of people fleeing to suburbs last year. - Huge amount of people continuing to flee this year. - Lots of buyer regrets on hugely marked up homes as things normalize. - Bunch of workers getting called back into offices and people regretting commute times. - Bunch of people quitting jobs and regretting their expensive purchases as they can't find other competitive paying jobs that stay remote. Etc..

pbuzbee 6y ago
I wonder this too. People who bought houses outside of major urban metros either got in early and made a great purchase, OR they paid top dollar for something that won't keep its personal and/or financial value. Feels like it could still go either way.

otterley 6y ago

Headline doesn't match the content. The content says that the respondents would "look for a new job." The respondents did not say they would quit. Obviously, one can look for a new job while still working at a current employer, and then quit if the search is successful.

sokoloff 6y ago

Study is published by a staffing firm, who surveyed around 1000 people. It seems like the people who would respond to a staffing firm's survey might not be fully representative of the broader working population. I did not expect to enjoy working from home, but I thoroughly do. I feel like I can be almost as effective, but I sure wouldn't quit over a return to the office. (And I sure wouldn't be reachable by a staffing firm to be surveyed.)

1-6 6y ago
Staffing firms have employees who are less integrated into the work environment of the host company.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jedberg 6y ago

This headline is clickbait. Read the actual survey. The actual survey says that 1/3 said they would start looking for a new job if they were no longer allowed to work remotely. But then 49% said they would be happy with a hybrid environment, where they only had to come in some of the time.

dheera 6y ago
Yes. The key here is that most of those 34% are probably talented, don't live within commute distance of an office of the company they work for, and have alternatives, so it makes sense that they would resign and take a different remote job instead of uprooting and moving their lives/families for non-remote work. People who prefer remote work come in largely two flavors: * People who do live within commute distance of their office but wish to work at home for various reasons * People who do not live within commute distance of their office and do not wish to move their home These two groups tend to think very differently about the problem.
brewdad 6y ago
I have no doubt many managers will screw up the hybrid environment by making it something like in-person on non-consecutive days. My ideal would be 3 consecutive days in the office and 4 days away. Remote work days plus a "weekend" that may or may not include Sat and Sun.
- greedo 6y ago
  Oh they'll screw it up. They'll say it's "hybrid" but promotions will naturally go to those who get more face-time. So the employees wanting to play the office politics game will be quick to realize it's best to be in the office.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

I prefer working from the office. And people who code form their laptops from cafés, really? You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Definitely not my cup of tea.

dj_mc_merlin 6y ago
> You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? Yes. I code the best on a shitty laptop with a small screen with no GPU. I'm not kidding, the more plain my computer is the better for programming. > Or you like working at home, near your home fridge and playing active kids? Yes that's annoying. But the office isn't much better for me. That's why I usually code past 10PM. edit: also, damn you. You made me notice my fridge actually makes a sound and I can't unnotice it now.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  Sorry for that fridge, but sitting all day looking down at the screen is not healthy. Most ergonomic way to use screens is using a strictly vertical screen, the top of the screen must be on the same level as your eyes. Other ways are guaranteed to give neck problems and headaches in a few years.
p0nce 6y ago
> You would spend hours looking at a small 15" screen, straining your neck and back, instead of comfortably using dual-monitor setup and a comfortable chair in the office? I've did this for 4 years. On a 15" screen even. Your average public library is _way_ more silent that your average open space office. And the idea of working in cafés is that there is people, but no social pressure. Some people work better when being isolated like this. with a bit of training for the ever-moving style, the level of focus is very similar to a comfortable office ; without the chatter and interruptions.
6y ago

jedberg 6y ago

I'll bet 1/3 also said they would walk away if they had to keep working remotely. If we've learned anything from this year, it's that there is no consensus. Some people like to work in an office, some people like to work at home, and most people like the flexibility of doing both when they choose to. I think offices are here to stay, but maybe in some cases they will change to be more like coworking spaces for just one company, where every desk is "rented", to allow for hybrid situations where different teams can choose if they want to be remote or in person and which days they do that.

devilduck 6y ago

Most people only work because they have to in order to live, not because they love to work. I would rather quit than deal with how most other people perceive what work is "supposed to be"

mugivarra69 6y ago

i will leave if i HAVE to go to office more than 1 day a week.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

blhack 6y ago

Absolutely on the other side of this. My wife and I are both 100% remote (except for some in person classes which we teach). We ended up renting an office (a really nice coworking space in Phoenix called industrious, which we have kindof fallen in love with). We pay for this out of our own pocket because it turns out that the amenities typical to an office are really nice. Our productivity is up substantially since we moved in here. Here's my prediction: the midpoint between work from home and going back to the office is going to be your employer paying for a coworking space like this for employees who want to be back in an office.

foobiekr 6y ago
But that’s not back in the office in terms of anything involving collaboration, it’s just getting out of the house. I think no companies would foot the bill for this. It’s more expensive than the amortized cost of an office and misses the key features that being in person brings.

anonu 6y ago

I envision a hybrid work environment. I would invest in off-site and event planning companies. Maybe even create a business that facilitates the entire planning process for companies. Every month or 2 everyone would fly out to a particular place - everyone could get some face time in, team-building activities, and then go back to WFH for the rest of the time.

k__ 6y ago

I left in 2013. Because of offices, but later I figured that working 8h and starting before 12 wasn't in my interest either. Now, that I work as a freelancer for 7 years, I don't think I can go back anymore. Employment feels like serfdom to me.

marvin 6y ago
I wonder how this will pan out for me. I'm increasingly thinking that just being employed is what's wrong for me. There's definitely something wrong, and it's not that I'm employed in the wrong place. It wouldn't get better just by switching jobs. Interesting to hear that some have had the same experience.
- k__ 6y ago
  Yes. It didn't feel like "employment isn't for me" at first. I never wanted to be self-employed. But in the end employment turned out to be too much.

soheil 6y ago

34% should probably be 33.333...% or one third. In other words I doubt they know the accuracy of this number any more than roughly estimating it to about a third. Which if is the case makes the argument less convincing that we're seeing a completely new phenomenon as it pertains to remote workers.

postalrat 6y ago

34% of workers have been doing 34% of their job they've always hated and don't want to go back to 100%. Let them quit. Hopefully they find something that gives them more enjoyment.

aroundtown 6y ago

Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No coworkers interrupting me when I'm in the zone. I've saved between 8-10 hours per week in not commuting. Worse, I've had bosses who enjoy flexing by having meetings promptly at 8am, where you have to leave extra early because you travel at peak rush hour. I don't have to keep up appearances when I'm done with my work for the day or moment. If I'm waiting for responses or reviews, I can veg out, watch Netflix or play a video game, while staying on top of my email and work load. I've also taken to getting some of my house work done during this time. Laundry, mowed grass, exercise, lots of little things that used to get stacked up on the weekend. I never have to eat off my diet, or feign excuses for not wanting to eat another office provided carb loaded meal. I stock my own foods, and have a hot meal for lunch everyday. Finally, I don't have to smell the 2 smokers that spend a couple of hours smoking every single day nor do I have to sit next to someone with questionable personal hygeine. Yes Richard, you smell awful, and stink up half the office with your body odor and cigarettes.

incrudible 6y ago
> Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. If you can talk like that post-pandemic, why couldn't you walk like that pre-pandemic? You could've had a remote job then, too. I do like remote work, but it's not all upsides. If there's a big shift to remote work, it will suppress wages because now you can hire from across the country, where living expenses are low.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  Personally I'd gladly take a pay cut for a fully remote job. Even SV salaries can't pay for the option to fully wfh if they choose to
- 5y ago

AbraKdabra 6y ago

On the contrary, I'd give a rib to go back to the office. I'm completely fine doing just 2 remote days.

cblconfederate 6y ago

I feel like kinda sorry for people who have to work 8 hours from an office they don't control. I sympathize with those who voluntarily do that, but i think it should be a sort of labour right to work flexibly when possible

slumdev 6y ago

I wasn't included in this survey. Make that 34.001%. > Above all, that means freedom to set their own office hours. This only works if every person on a team can work independently. > That includes, for example, not needing to make chit-chat with co-workers. I've fallen in love with being able to hear myself think. (Also my espresso machine and my standing desk.)

annoyingnoob 6y ago

When can we talk about a 6 hour work day?

devilduck 6y ago
As soon as we can talk about all the type-A personalities that are working to ensure we will grind ourselves to death
t-writescode 6y ago
I think I'd prefer the 4-day, 8-hour-per-day work week over the 6-hour work day.
- annoyingnoob 6y ago
  I've worked regular 40 our weeks, 9/80s with every other Friday off, and 4/10s with every Friday off. So, 8, 9, and 10 hour shifts. I still want a 6 hour day, 30 hours a week for the same pay. Longer days just are not as productive for me - I do my best work in abut 6 hours, the rest just isn't as productive. I think I would actually be more creative with more freedom in my day.

skeeter2020 6y ago

>> Just under half of all the surveyed WFH employees (49%) said they would prefer a hybrid work arrangement, dividing their time between the office and another location. Likewise, 26% said they want to remain fully remote, and 25% wanted to return to a full-time office situation So the real (less attractive) headline is "Typical Distribution in Demand" with the sub title of majority prefer more flexibility over less. Not really much there...

Dominisi 6y ago

For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.

ianai 6y ago
Yes and if you have a disagreement with said external friends it is highly unlikely to affect your professional life.
mym1990 6y ago
While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.
- Bedon292 6y ago
  If you are driving to work the most you can do during that drive is listen to a podcast, news, or book on tape. Stuff I can already do at home doing other things too. But have to deal with things like someone just cut you off, and now you just forgot what was happening and need to rewind. It is far from a productive time period. Without having to commute I have a lot more time to do things that are much more valuable to me.
  - mym1990 6y ago
    I think most of the people missed my point. I didn't say commuting was a productive time, but it doesn't have to be a complete waste either. Sure, some days people are groggy or feel like zoning out on the commute, cool. But I feel like if 100% of the days are like that, and you actively complain about it...there is something that can change.
- raziel2701 6y ago
  Nah let's fight for structural change instead of timidly complying and listening to podcasts while we become traffic and lose 22 days a year.

schoolornot 6y ago

I'm having a hard time understanding the justification for returning to the office. My only answer is "power play" and to justify existing capital investments in office space. If Salesforce, a 49,000 employee company can go remote-first, most other companies can as well.

pythonbase 6y ago

In my country most of the workforce that went remote during the pandemic is back at work. Seems WFH is more of a fad in the West.

sunilkumarc 6y ago

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deedubaya 6y ago

I think the next lesson most companies will be learning is that hybrid can be the worst of both worlds. Remote employees will feel out-of-the-loop, in-office employees will feel like they have to jump through hoops to include their remote colleagues. In-office employees will feel like they can't collaborate because of random WFH from a teammate. Remote employees will feel like they're getting dragged into the office because a teammate scheduled an in-person meeting on a day they weren't planning on going into the office. It's not impossible, but it is a lot harder to figure out than 100% of one or the other.

auiya 6y ago

Anecdotally, my last employer irresponsibly forced most people to return to the office at the height of the 2nd wave. I opted to... not. And I picked up a WFH role instead with a much better salary. So far it's been the best career choice I've ever made.

Black101 6y ago

Until the time comes to quit. When you live paycheck to paycheck, it isn't an easy decision...

shaftway 6y ago

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I am chomping at the bit to get back into the office. I'm a Senior SWE. I've got ADHD. Work from home has been *catastrophic* for me. I don't have the ability to focus. I have no space in my home where I can work distraction-free, and no ability to create a space separate from my family. From home I can slack off for an hour... or two... or days, and nobody notices because my projects don't have deliverables that are measured in less than weeks. So I end up spending way too much time on non-work things and then berate myself for it afterwards. And then I do the same thing the next day. Being in the office gives me an externally-imposed structure that I just don't have the capability to impose on myself. I had the freedom to pick a few days here and there to WFH as needed, so I understand and can occasionally use the benefits. I also miss out on the serendipitous conversations. I know that a lot of people discount this as hand-waviness, but my team's culture around texting is disruptive in a way that I used to avoid in person. I felt like I had a much better handle on things in the office. My spouse runs her own company, and she has a free office, so I've been using that twice a week, and I make sure to medicate these days to make the most of them. But my output is still significantly lower than when I was in office. And I don't want to move to every day medication for a variety of reasons. I've read the comments suggesting that middle management thinks that their perceived impact is threatened in a work from home environment, but I am clearly not in that demographic. My work is either writing design docs and getting approval, leading a team to build these designs, or getting my hands dirty with the code itself. I don't care if other people work from home, as long as I'm not completely alone in the office. I just need the structure back. I feel like a junky who just needs "one more" whiteboard fix.

shaftway 6y ago
More context that didn't really fit in. Like I said, I'm free to WFH as I see fit as is. I probably averaged WFH less than one day a week, but sometimes it was as many as 3 days. I've done remote work for ~3 years for a few companies. This only worked because their expectations were significantly lower than my capabilities, so I was able to coast through with ~2 hours of work per day. As my role has increased, expectations have risen to match my capabilities. But I strongly feel like I only have those capabilities in the office.
6y ago

ryanSrich 6y ago

Lower than I'd like to see it. I think a lot of companies will justify forced commute because of this. 34% isn't even a majority.

AltruisticGapHN 6y ago

The worst part for me about working in the office is that my view is completely open. Zero privacy, distractions all day. Cubicles look like the caricature of boring office work, I don’t know but for me it would be awesome. Have a little corner I can personalize, not to have to see my colleagues eyes staring right into my face all da6 because they happen to sit right in front of me and have a better posture. Can I get a rest please? I’ll admit I suffer from trauma related stress but regardless how is it good for anybody? If we agree that separating work from personal time is important, why wouldn’t this apply AT work to separate focus, from socializing time?

Viliam1234 6y ago
Yeah, I always wondered why people complain about cubicles. To me, they seem much preferable to open spaces. For introverted people, this is torture.

Sodman 6y ago

We talk a lot about the "You can't make me go back" crowd, but I don't think we give much thought to the "Why do I have to bend over backwards to support a few fully remote co-workers" crowd. Being fully remote works well (for some people) when the whole team is remote. My biggest fear is that hybrid environments can bring out the worst of both worlds. I wonder how many people will quit if they're forced to work with remote-only employees on a regular basis? If you're having a meeting with 4 in-person co-workers and 2 remote co-workers, you have to make all sorts of accommodations for the remote folks that wouldn't be necessary for a meeting with the same 6 people in-person. "Can you repeat the question" / "Can you share your [other] screen?" / "Can we record this meeting?" / "Can you hold the camera up to the whiteboard?". Similarly, if you're in the minority of remote folks on a hybrid team, you'll be at a disadvantage. You're likely forced to either miss out on some context/discussions from not being present or not being able to hear, or become "that person" asking folks to repeat themselves or specially accommodate you in various ways. Not to mention missing out on face time with the boss[es boss], which can (rightly or wrongly) often factor in to promotion/raise discussions.

pacomerh 6y ago

I'm certainly not looking forward to go back to an office. Not sure about that 34%, seems pretty high, but I can believe this

ryanSrich 6y ago

I'm 100% convinced people who do not like remote work are not doing it correctly, or their company is not providing them with the tools and culture to do it correctly. Remote work done correctly is the best option for 99.9% of all jobs that exist.

frompdx 6y ago
I understand where some people are coming from. If you have kids, a small house or apartment, an incompatible work dynamic with your partner (they do sales, you do code), or some combination of those, WFH likely sucks. On the flip side, if you are in a position to do it right, it really is ideal. My partner and I have no kids, our house is large enough that we could each have our own office if we could agree on who gets stuck with the room in the basement, and our work dynamics are reasonably compatible on most days. We also purchased high quality office chairs at the start of the pandemic which have really been fantastic. I do agree that a lot of people could do at least something to make their WFH situation better. I have coworkers with lousy wireless internet in their house and I'm often mystified as to why they don't buy a better WAP. Or, I see them sitting in a crappy chair using their laptop instead of a proper keyboard and monitor even though they have the space for proper office furniture. I think these types of things are something employers should help out with and aren't terribly costly in the grand scheme of things.

ykevinator3 6y ago

If you don't have little kids, remote is so nice.

VioricaVanica 5y ago

There are advantages and disadvantages when it comes to remote work, but to be honest I don't really miss the office after I started to use https://myfocusspace.com https://myfocusspace.com which matches me with accountability buddies for 1 hour session of focused work and then we have 10 minutes at the end to network. This helps me with the variety I had when working from the office. Nonetheless, I think working remotely will stick with us for a long time.