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> the bulk of users is either too stupid or unwilling to invest even the tiniest amount of effort into their privacy This is an awful attitude. Not everyone un

> the bulk of users is either too stupid or unwilling to invest even the tiniest amount of effort into their privacy This is an awful attitude. Not everyone understands computers at a technical level. Not everyone has the knowledge to install and troubleshoot Matrix. Most users are non-technical, full stop. You can't expect them to use something that requires technical knowledge.

dtx1 6y ago
Then the reality is that those users cannot expect privacy anymore
- jedberg 6y ago
  This part I disagree with. They can (and should) lobby for laws that protect their privacy. Users don't want to give up convenience, but if the majority are using the services of BigCorp, and we push to force BigCorp to provide privacy through legislation, then society still wins.
  - dtx1 6y ago
    They should but rarely do and even if a tiny victory like GDPR is won, it's immediately dismantled by big corps. Facebook hasn't been fined any significant amount yet it violates GDPR every day. As it stands right now, the average user has no privacy. Just try this: Use a default browser without adblocking/tracking protection etc. for a week and look how the ads are targeting you more and more. That's the internet for the average user. We just don't see it as much because we default to protect ourselves.
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Lobbying for privacy laws requires legal knowledge to know which proposals can actually be effective, otherwise one is merely lending their uninformed support to whatever the media tells them is a good idea today. It all comes down to self actualization, no matter how you slice it. Installing Element instead of Signal (even with its @weird%identity.syntax) is quite technically easy, especially compared to politics! The issue is almost entirely social, in that it requires pushing back on friends who want you to install the proprietary stuff to communicate, and pushing them to the Free solutions.

dtx1 6y ago

Then the reality is that those users cannot expect privacy anymore

jedberg 6y ago
This part I disagree with. They can (and should) lobby for laws that protect their privacy. Users don't want to give up convenience, but if the majority are using the services of BigCorp, and we push to force BigCorp to provide privacy through legislation, then society still wins.
- dtx1 6y ago
  They should but rarely do and even if a tiny victory like GDPR is won, it's immediately dismantled by big corps. Facebook hasn't been fined any significant amount yet it violates GDPR every day. As it stands right now, the average user has no privacy. Just try this: Use a default browser without adblocking/tracking protection etc. for a week and look how the ads are targeting you more and more. That's the internet for the average user. We just don't see it as much because we default to protect ourselves.
- mindslight 6y ago
  Lobbying for privacy laws requires legal knowledge to know which proposals can actually be effective, otherwise one is merely lending their uninformed support to whatever the media tells them is a good idea today. It all comes down to self actualization, no matter how you slice it. Installing Element instead of Signal (even with its @weird%identity.syntax) is quite technically easy, especially compared to politics! The issue is almost entirely social, in that it requires pushing back on friends who want you to install the proprietary stuff to communicate, and pushing them to the Free solutions.