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This followup issue seems to have a more clear writeup, especially for someone like me who is a bit out of the loop when it comes to the PSL: https://github.co

This followup issue seems to have a more clear writeup, especially for someone like me who is a bit out of the loop when it comes to the PSL: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issues/78 https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue...

djrogers 5y ago
While it does have quite a bit of details, this followup issue is clearly written by someone from FB or one of the other AdCos who wants to point the finger back at Apple. The tone and wording used here is rather rich and entitled.
- wffurr 5y ago
  They seem to think that people can’t really “opt out” of “tracking” (scare quotes theirs). Talk about entitled.
  - dialtone 5y ago
    The quotes are entirely appropriate because adding some domain to the PSL makes the subdomains siloed cookie-wise so they can't share cookies and the PSL cannot use cookies anymore. Since they can't share cookies you can't track across even the same domain when added to the PSL. This is a feature needed for sites like Rakuten, Shopify, Alibaba that have multiple merchants under the same domains. Nothing to do with entitlement.
    - kelnos 5y ago
      FB seems to believe they are entitled to the ability to track people on iOS. Apple is under no obligation to allow that.
      - dialtone 5y ago
        Apple literally built a feature that requires addition to PSL to support a usecase that was addressed multiple times in the PrivacyCG meetings. How is this entitlement, they are following the Apple requirements.
        slenk 5y ago
        Another thing that would follow Apple's requirements is just buying myweirdwebsite.com
        ankmathur96 5y ago
        The entire point of these generated subdomains is that you do not have to buy a domain name...
        kalleboo 5y ago
        If you're at the point you're spending money on ads and need to track them, you can spend $10 on a domain name? Lots of these platforms also give away free domain names.
        ankmathur96 5y ago
        It's not about whether or not it's foolish - the point is buying and setting up a subdomain, handing SEO, etc. is often more complex than some small business owners want to deal with.
        slenk 5y ago
        Which seems foolish if a company is serious about tracking revenue...
- pandemicsyn 5y ago
  you're not joking: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issues/78#issuecomment-814737936 https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue... >Who will vet such a list continuously at a global scale? >Apple should. >Apple created this issue in the first place. The need for multi-tenant websites to add themselves to the PSL exists only because of the PCM design decision to limit measurement to registrable domains. The urgency exists because Apple's planned ATT enforcement.
- dkonofalski 5y ago
  Seriously. I can see reasons that aren't entirely altruistic for Apple in trying to increase these privacy protections but trying to offload it back to Apple as if Facebook's abuse of consumer data isn't the real reason for this is ridiculous.
- dswalter 5y ago
  According to the comments in the history of that user on Github, it is someone who claims to be an engineer from Facebook in an earlier post: https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/28#issue-644758644 https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/28#issue-6447...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- romanhn 5y ago
  Ben Savage is a pretty high-level engineer from Facebook's Ads org
marketingtech 5y ago
This is fascinating to see Apple and Facebook engineers politely yet publicly arguing over potential technical implementations of Apple's privacy policies.
- tgragnato 5y ago
  Benjamin Savage doesn’t look polite to me. Is it because I’m not a native speaker?
  - Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
    You're right, it's not that polite. "If Apple can develop a scaled process to review the millions of apps submitted to the Apple store, surely it is also capable of reviewing the few dozen multi-tenant domains that exist on the internet" is very passive-aggressive.
vHMtsdf 5y ago
The linked discussion makes me wonder, how much of our existence on the internet is just an unintended consequence of some minor engineering decision? Whim of an unknown engineer creating or destroying million dollar industries down the line...

djrogers 5y ago

While it does have quite a bit of details, this followup issue is clearly written by someone from FB or one of the other AdCos who wants to point the finger back at Apple. The tone and wording used here is rather rich and entitled.

wffurr 5y ago
They seem to think that people can’t really “opt out” of “tracking” (scare quotes theirs). Talk about entitled.
- dialtone 5y ago
  The quotes are entirely appropriate because adding some domain to the PSL makes the subdomains siloed cookie-wise so they can't share cookies and the PSL cannot use cookies anymore. Since they can't share cookies you can't track across even the same domain when added to the PSL. This is a feature needed for sites like Rakuten, Shopify, Alibaba that have multiple merchants under the same domains. Nothing to do with entitlement.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    FB seems to believe they are entitled to the ability to track people on iOS. Apple is under no obligation to allow that.
    - dialtone 5y ago
      Apple literally built a feature that requires addition to PSL to support a usecase that was addressed multiple times in the PrivacyCG meetings. How is this entitlement, they are following the Apple requirements.
      - slenk 5y ago
        Another thing that would follow Apple's requirements is just buying myweirdwebsite.com
        ankmathur96 5y ago
        The entire point of these generated subdomains is that you do not have to buy a domain name...
        kalleboo 5y ago
        If you're at the point you're spending money on ads and need to track them, you can spend $10 on a domain name? Lots of these platforms also give away free domain names.
        ankmathur96 5y ago
        It's not about whether or not it's foolish - the point is buying and setting up a subdomain, handing SEO, etc. is often more complex than some small business owners want to deal with.
        slenk 5y ago
        Which seems foolish if a company is serious about tracking revenue...
pandemicsyn 5y ago
you're not joking: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issues/78#issuecomment-814737936 https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue... >Who will vet such a list continuously at a global scale? >Apple should. >Apple created this issue in the first place. The need for multi-tenant websites to add themselves to the PSL exists only because of the PCM design decision to limit measurement to registrable domains. The urgency exists because Apple's planned ATT enforcement.
dkonofalski 5y ago
Seriously. I can see reasons that aren't entirely altruistic for Apple in trying to increase these privacy protections but trying to offload it back to Apple as if Facebook's abuse of consumer data isn't the real reason for this is ridiculous.
dswalter 5y ago
According to the comments in the history of that user on Github, it is someone who claims to be an engineer from Facebook in an earlier post: https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/28#issue-644758644 https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/28#issue-6447...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
romanhn 5y ago
Ben Savage is a pretty high-level engineer from Facebook's Ads org

marketingtech 5y ago

This is fascinating to see Apple and Facebook engineers politely yet publicly arguing over potential technical implementations of Apple's privacy policies.

tgragnato 5y ago
Benjamin Savage doesn’t look polite to me. Is it because I’m not a native speaker?
- Doctor_Fegg 5y ago
  You're right, it's not that polite. "If Apple can develop a scaled process to review the millions of apps submitted to the Apple store, surely it is also capable of reviewing the few dozen multi-tenant domains that exist on the internet" is very passive-aggressive.

vHMtsdf 5y ago

The linked discussion makes me wonder, how much of our existence on the internet is just an unintended consequence of some minor engineering decision? Whim of an unknown engineer creating or destroying million dollar industries down the line...