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So I agree with your sentiment, your details are a little off. “it wouldn't be too difficult for them to grab absolutely anything they want. Even disk encryptio

So I agree with your sentiment, your details are a little off. “it wouldn't be too difficult for them to grab absolutely anything they want. Even disk encryption doesn't save you. You're in a VM, they can watch the memory if they need to.” It would be difficult because you’d have to have host access. VM disk encryption is now tied into an HSM or TPM these days, host access wouldn’t help. As for memory, that is now usually encrypted, so no dice there either. The security of a big name public VPS is astoundingly better than what you can do yourself. “Using a VPS can make you more identifiable” I think you have a problem of “threat model” here. You’re mixing up hiding against hackers, governments, etc and just lumping it under “privacy and security” Using a VPS isn’t going to make you more identifiable to google, because you’re not using google now. Using a VPN isn’t going to make you more identifiable to your ISP, because all they can see is that you have a VPN up. Why not use a VPS for VPN? Well you’re only right it would suck if your threat model includes governments or hostile actors, me hiding from my ISP or on a public Wi-Fi? Not a problem. You conflate a few ideas and threat models. Security = The ability to not have your stuff accessed or changed. Privacy = The ability to not have your stuff seen. Anonymity = The ability to not have your stuff linked back to you. Threat model = Who are you protecting yourself from? E.g. The steps I take to not get hacked by the NSA are going to be different then the steps I use to make comments on 4chan or whatever are different than the steps I take to use public Wi-Fi. Ref: I work for Amazon AWS, my opinions are my own insane ramblings.

aksss 6y ago
> Encryption tied to TPM Common on laptops, but I wouldn’t assume that for systems/SANs in a data center, much less their virtual disks. Would love to be corrected.
- benlivengood 6y ago
  AMD secure memory encryption and secure encrypted virtualization. Intel probably has something in the works, but today you can take a GCE instance from a signed coreboot through bootloader and kernel with logged attestation at each phase resulting in a VM using per-VM disk encryption key (you have to provide it in the RPC that starts the machine; it's supposedly otherwise ephemeral) with SME encrypted RAM (again, ephemeral per-machine key). Google calls it Confidential VM and Secure Boot for now.
- lrem 6y ago
  Google builds its own solution into all servers... And to show that branding brilliance, uses the same name as for all things security: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/google-reveals-details-about-titan-its-server-security-chip/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/google-reveals-de...
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  TPM is a server technology recently backported to laptops.
Nullabillity 6y ago
> It would be difficult because you’d have to have host access. Which AWS has, by definition. > VM disk encryption is now tied into an HSM or TPM these days, host access wouldn’t help. Are you passing all of the data through the TPM? If no: you still need to keep the key in memory somewhere, the TPM is just used for offline storage. If yes: the TPM, and the communication with it, is still under AWS' control. > As for memory, that is now usually encrypted, so no dice there either. Still need to keep the key somewhere, so same concern as for disk encryption. Except I can pretty much guarantee you're not putting the TPM on the memory's critical path, so... > The security of a big name public VPS is astoundingly better than what you can do yourself. Feel free to back such claims up in the future. Because right now this seems to be as false as the rest of your post. > Using a VPS isn’t going to make you more identifiable to google, because you’re not using google now. What? It certainly won't make you less identifiable either. > Using a VPN isn’t going to make you more identifiable to your ISP, because all they can see is that you have a VPN up. Your VPN provider, on the other hand, can now see all of the traffic, where before they couldn't. So the question is ultimately whether you trust your ISP or VPN provider more. > Why not use a VPS for VPN? Well you’re only right it would suck if your threat model includes governments or hostile actors, me hiding from my ISP Sure, if you trust the Amazon over your ISP that makes perfect sense. Then again, this is the Amazon that seems to love forcing their employees to piss in bottles, and is on a huge misinformation campaign against treating their employees properly. That seems like an upstanding place with great leadership. > or on a public Wi-Fi? Not a problem. Makes some sense, but it wouldn't really give you much more than hosting the VPN at home. (Well, you'd still have to do the same calculus here for home ISP vs Amazon.) > You conflate a few ideas and threat models. Pot, meet kettle. > Ref: I work for Amazon AWS, my opinions are my own insane ramblings. Good to know that AWS employees are either clueless about their own offerings, or deliberately spreading misinformation. Seems like a place that I'd love to trust...
- imwillofficial 6y ago
  "Good to know that AWS employees are either clueless about their own offerings, or deliberately spreading misinformation." ::shrugs:: I don't work for that part of AWS. My opinion came from other experience. You're not only wrong, but you managed to insult me while being wrong. That's the worst kind of wrong. If you want some further reading, there is some cool work being done in this space. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/enclaves/latest/user/nitro-enclave.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/enclaves/latest/user/nitro-encla... https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/identity-security/introducing-google-cloud-confidential-computing-with-confidential-vms https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/identity-security/int... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/confidential-compute/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/confidential-com...

aksss 6y ago

> Encryption tied to TPM Common on laptops, but I wouldn’t assume that for systems/SANs in a data center, much less their virtual disks. Would love to be corrected.

benlivengood 6y ago
AMD secure memory encryption and secure encrypted virtualization. Intel probably has something in the works, but today you can take a GCE instance from a signed coreboot through bootloader and kernel with logged attestation at each phase resulting in a VM using per-VM disk encryption key (you have to provide it in the RPC that starts the machine; it's supposedly otherwise ephemeral) with SME encrypted RAM (again, ephemeral per-machine key). Google calls it Confidential VM and Secure Boot for now.
lrem 6y ago
Google builds its own solution into all servers... And to show that branding brilliance, uses the same name as for all things security: https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/google-reveals-details-about-titan-its-server-security-chip/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/google-reveals-de...
imwillofficial 6y ago
TPM is a server technology recently backported to laptops.

Nullabillity 6y ago

> It would be difficult because you’d have to have host access. Which AWS has, by definition. > VM disk encryption is now tied into an HSM or TPM these days, host access wouldn’t help. Are you passing all of the data through the TPM? If no: you still need to keep the key in memory somewhere, the TPM is just used for offline storage. If yes: the TPM, and the communication with it, is still under AWS' control. > As for memory, that is now usually encrypted, so no dice there either. Still need to keep the key somewhere, so same concern as for disk encryption. Except I can pretty much guarantee you're not putting the TPM on the memory's critical path, so... > The security of a big name public VPS is astoundingly better than what you can do yourself. Feel free to back such claims up in the future. Because right now this seems to be as false as the rest of your post. > Using a VPS isn’t going to make you more identifiable to google, because you’re not using google now. What? It certainly won't make you less identifiable either. > Using a VPN isn’t going to make you more identifiable to your ISP, because all they can see is that you have a VPN up. Your VPN provider, on the other hand, can now see all of the traffic, where before they couldn't. So the question is ultimately whether you trust your ISP or VPN provider more. > Why not use a VPS for VPN? Well you’re only right it would suck if your threat model includes governments or hostile actors, me hiding from my ISP Sure, if you trust the Amazon over your ISP that makes perfect sense. Then again, this is the Amazon that seems to love forcing their employees to piss in bottles, and is on a huge misinformation campaign against treating their employees properly. That seems like an upstanding place with great leadership. > or on a public Wi-Fi? Not a problem. Makes some sense, but it wouldn't really give you much more than hosting the VPN at home. (Well, you'd still have to do the same calculus here for home ISP vs Amazon.) > You conflate a few ideas and threat models. Pot, meet kettle. > Ref: I work for Amazon AWS, my opinions are my own insane ramblings. Good to know that AWS employees are either clueless about their own offerings, or deliberately spreading misinformation. Seems like a place that I'd love to trust...

imwillofficial 6y ago
"Good to know that AWS employees are either clueless about their own offerings, or deliberately spreading misinformation." ::shrugs:: I don't work for that part of AWS. My opinion came from other experience. You're not only wrong, but you managed to insult me while being wrong. That's the worst kind of wrong. If you want some further reading, there is some cool work being done in this space. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/enclaves/latest/user/nitro-enclave.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/enclaves/latest/user/nitro-encla... https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/identity-security/introducing-google-cloud-confidential-computing-with-confidential-vms https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/identity-security/int... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/confidential-compute/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/solutions/confidential-com...