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You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. I don't understand this - they are not competing brands or sports teams but tools. Why would it mat

by fsloth 6y ago

You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. I don't understand this - they are not competing brands or sports teams but tools. Why would it matter and to whom if C++ use would decline? If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. Choose the best tool for the job and all that.

throwaway894345 6y ago
> If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. The hypothesis is that C++ will decline because it becomes the lesser tool (where "lesser tool" means it excels only in increasingly small niches) if it doesn't adapt. That said, the C++ community seems to want to adapt and remain relevant, as indicated by its significant progress over the last decade. As for why someone might care about the usage of a programming language: because "ease of finding developers" and "quality and breadth of ecosystem" are major factors in deciding on new projects. I.e., "the best tool for the job" is often the one with the broader ecosystem and more developers, all else equal. So these factors feed back on each other.
ansible 6y ago
> You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. Competition exists all around us, all the time, whether we like it or not. And the competition between C++ and Rust is very clear. I, for example, would likely be spending more time / effort on learning the latest C++ standards if Rust didn't exist. And likely hate my life a little bit, unless I could exclusively stick to C++ "the good parts" if such a subset exists and I didn't need to interface as much with existing C++ code.
criddell 6y ago
My job is writing C++ and I love it. I've been working with C++ since the mid 90's and have grown very fond of the language and I'm pretty productive in it. If C++ use declines, then there are fewer opportunities for me. So you can count me as a member of team C++.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- kazinator 6y ago
  If you don't keep up with all this C++20 material, there will likewise be fewer opportunities for you. They will throw it at you in an interview, to check that you aren't some stubborn C++98 gunslinger.
  - criddell 6y ago
    I do my best! I really enjoy working in C++ and it's a pretty exciting time for me when a new standard rolls around and my compiler gets updated to support it.
- fsloth 6y ago
  I also write C++ for a living but feel no threat if I had to suddenly start writing C, C#, Java, Python, Rust, F#, Scala, or what have you. Sure, it would need learning a thing or two but basically they all are driving the same ARM or x86 based compute stack with exactly the same constraints due to computer architecture . My focus has been to brand myself as "domain expert" in few algorithmic domains rather than "C++" expert so this may affect my point of view, though.
  - criddell 6y ago
    > feel no threat if I had to suddenly start writing C, C#, Java, Python, Rust, F#, Scala It isn't necessarily a threat. I'm pretty comfortable in a bunch of different languages but just enjoy C++ more than the others. To use a car analogy, I have no problem driving automatic but I really like driving stick.
- p0nce 6y ago
  How long will that take you to assimilate those C++20 features?
  - criddell 6y ago
kazinator 6y ago
> Why would it matter and to whom if C++ use would decline? If the use declines to zero, then all the effort someone put into developing C++ compilers and related tooling had been for naught, as are C++ development skills.
- fsloth 6y ago
  Given the prevalence of C++ it is very hard for me to imagine a situation where the use would decline to zero. The notion of how to write a specific language such as C++ is immaterial compared to the capability to design and implement complex software systems and those skills are quite portable between languages. The best employers tend to recognize this.

by fsloth 6y ago

throwaway894345 6y ago

> If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. The hypothesis is that C++ will decline because it becomes the lesser tool (where "lesser tool" means it excels only in increasingly small niches) if it doesn't adapt. That said, the C++ community seems to want to adapt and remain relevant, as indicated by its significant progress over the last decade. As for why someone might care about the usage of a programming language: because "ease of finding developers" and "quality and breadth of ecosystem" are major factors in deciding on new projects. I.e., "the best tool for the job" is often the one with the broader ecosystem and more developers, all else equal. So these factors feed back on each other.

ansible 6y ago

> You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. Competition exists all around us, all the time, whether we like it or not. And the competition between C++ and Rust is very clear. I, for example, would likely be spending more time / effort on learning the latest C++ standards if Rust didn't exist. And likely hate my life a little bit, unless I could exclusively stick to C++ "the good parts" if such a subset exists and I didn't need to interface as much with existing C++ code.

criddell 6y ago

My job is writing C++ and I love it. I've been working with C++ since the mid 90's and have grown very fond of the language and I'm pretty productive in it. If C++ use declines, then there are fewer opportunities for me. So you can count me as a member of team C++.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
kazinator 6y ago
If you don't keep up with all this C++20 material, there will likewise be fewer opportunities for you. They will throw it at you in an interview, to check that you aren't some stubborn C++98 gunslinger.
- criddell 6y ago
  I do my best! I really enjoy working in C++ and it's a pretty exciting time for me when a new standard rolls around and my compiler gets updated to support it.
fsloth 6y ago
I also write C++ for a living but feel no threat if I had to suddenly start writing C, C#, Java, Python, Rust, F#, Scala, or what have you. Sure, it would need learning a thing or two but basically they all are driving the same ARM or x86 based compute stack with exactly the same constraints due to computer architecture . My focus has been to brand myself as "domain expert" in few algorithmic domains rather than "C++" expert so this may affect my point of view, though.
- criddell 6y ago
  > feel no threat if I had to suddenly start writing C, C#, Java, Python, Rust, F#, Scala It isn't necessarily a threat. I'm pretty comfortable in a bunch of different languages but just enjoy C++ more than the others. To use a car analogy, I have no problem driving automatic but I really like driving stick.
p0nce 6y ago
How long will that take you to assimilate those C++20 features?
- criddell 6y ago

kazinator 6y ago

> Why would it matter and to whom if C++ use would decline? If the use declines to zero, then all the effort someone put into developing C++ compilers and related tooling had been for naught, as are C++ development skills.

fsloth 6y ago
Given the prevalence of C++ it is very hard for me to imagine a situation where the use would decline to zero. The notion of how to write a specific language such as C++ is immaterial compared to the capability to design and implement complex software systems and those skills are quite portable between languages. The best employers tend to recognize this.