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"I think many people would use the language more" C++ is considered the industry leading language in many fields. I'm not sure how many more you would want (gi

by fsloth 6y ago

"I think many people would use the language more" C++ is considered the industry leading language in many fields. I'm not sure how many more you would want (given that those fields that don't use C++ ARE probably better served with some other language). I agree the build is painfull, but large orgs have for this reason specifically implemented build systems using nugets, conan/cmake or whatnot. In personal projects I just download the prebuilt binaries of component libraries and drag and drop them to visual studio, minimizing hassle. If you discard finesse and scalability as requirements you can actually jury rig a C++ project in a jiffy. You just need to let go of the idea that it must be "industry standard setup".

throwaway894345 6y ago
C++ used to be the industry leading language in many more fields, but it lost ground to other languages. Not a bad thing--"know thyself" and all that. But Rust seems like a credible threat to C++'s remaining niches (bury your head in the sand if you want), and C++ will need to evolve if it is to not lose further market-/mindshare. And it is evolving, as this article points out, but a huge glaring pain point in C++ development remains the build and package management tooling. The aforementioned build systems that large organizations operate aren't nearly as nice as, say, Cargo and I think a lot of greenfield projects who have to choose between cobbling together their own build tool to work with C++ and using Rust + Cargo off the shelf will choose the latter (other factors notwithstanding).
- pjmlp 6y ago
  I will get worried when NVidia releases CUDA-Rust, and changes their GPGPUs from C++ memory model to Rust, Microsoft decides to rewrite WinUI in Rust, Apple moves Metal from C++ into Rust, or Unreal/Unity get rewritten in Rust.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    Like I said: > bury your head in the sand if you want Great chat, as always. :)
    - adamdusty 6y ago
      Rust is so far from taking over c++, you could bury your head, my head, and everyone else's head in the sand and we'd still be waiting.
- fsloth 6y ago
  You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. I don't understand this - they are not competing brands or sports teams but tools. Why would it matter and to whom if C++ use would decline? If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. Choose the best tool for the job and all that.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. The hypothesis is that C++ will decline because it becomes the lesser tool (where "lesser tool" means it excels only in increasingly small niches) if it doesn't adapt. That said, the C++ community seems to want to adapt and remain relevant, as indicated by its significant progress over the last decade. As for why someone might care about the usage of a programming language: because "ease of finding developers" and "quality and breadth of ecosystem" are major factors in deciding on new projects. I.e., "the best tool for the job" is often the one with the broader ecosystem and more developers, all else equal. So these factors feed back on each other.
  - ansible 6y ago
    > You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. Competition exists all around us, all the time, whether we like it or not. And the competition between C++ and Rust is very clear. I, for example, would likely be spending more time / effort on learning the latest C++ standards if Rust didn't exist. And likely hate my life a little bit, unless I could exclusively stick to C++ "the good parts" if such a subset exists and I didn't need to interface as much with existing C++ code.
  - criddell 6y ago
    My job is writing C++ and I love it. I've been working with C++ since the mid 90's and have grown very fond of the language and I'm pretty productive in it. If C++ use declines, then there are fewer opportunities for me. So you can count me as a member of team C++.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]

by fsloth 6y ago

throwaway894345 6y ago

C++ used to be the industry leading language in many more fields, but it lost ground to other languages. Not a bad thing--"know thyself" and all that. But Rust seems like a credible threat to C++'s remaining niches (bury your head in the sand if you want), and C++ will need to evolve if it is to not lose further market-/mindshare. And it is evolving, as this article points out, but a huge glaring pain point in C++ development remains the build and package management tooling. The aforementioned build systems that large organizations operate aren't nearly as nice as, say, Cargo and I think a lot of greenfield projects who have to choose between cobbling together their own build tool to work with C++ and using Rust + Cargo off the shelf will choose the latter (other factors notwithstanding).

pjmlp 6y ago
I will get worried when NVidia releases CUDA-Rust, and changes their GPGPUs from C++ memory model to Rust, Microsoft decides to rewrite WinUI in Rust, Apple moves Metal from C++ into Rust, or Unreal/Unity get rewritten in Rust.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  Like I said: > bury your head in the sand if you want Great chat, as always. :)
  - adamdusty 6y ago
    Rust is so far from taking over c++, you could bury your head, my head, and everyone else's head in the sand and we'd still be waiting.
fsloth 6y ago
You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. I don't understand this - they are not competing brands or sports teams but tools. Why would it matter and to whom if C++ use would decline? If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. Choose the best tool for the job and all that.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > If use of C++ declines then I don't understand how that would make the language a lesser tool. The hypothesis is that C++ will decline because it becomes the lesser tool (where "lesser tool" means it excels only in increasingly small niches) if it doesn't adapt. That said, the C++ community seems to want to adapt and remain relevant, as indicated by its significant progress over the last decade. As for why someone might care about the usage of a programming language: because "ease of finding developers" and "quality and breadth of ecosystem" are major factors in deciding on new projects. I.e., "the best tool for the job" is often the one with the broader ecosystem and more developers, all else equal. So these factors feed back on each other.
- ansible 6y ago
  > You write as if Rust vs. C++ was some sort of competition. Competition exists all around us, all the time, whether we like it or not. And the competition between C++ and Rust is very clear. I, for example, would likely be spending more time / effort on learning the latest C++ standards if Rust didn't exist. And likely hate my life a little bit, unless I could exclusively stick to C++ "the good parts" if such a subset exists and I didn't need to interface as much with existing C++ code.
- criddell 6y ago
  My job is writing C++ and I love it. I've been working with C++ since the mid 90's and have grown very fond of the language and I'm pretty productive in it. If C++ use declines, then there are fewer opportunities for me. So you can count me as a member of team C++.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]