4 ms·

This is actually working very bad in most practical situations. The way to go is Telegrams way, where you store all data on the server and happily sync ut easil

This is actually working very bad in most practical situations. The way to go is Telegrams way, where you store all data on the server and happily sync ut easily between devices. Just do it on your own server using xmpp. E2ee helps mostly against server owner, and you eliminate this risk by being your own server owner.

mixedCase 6y ago
You run your own datacenter?
- approxim8ion 6y ago
  XMPP is extremely light, you can use a moderately powered personal computer to handle traffic from several users. I don't have the numbers with me but last I'd heard, the number was in the hundreds.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    ejabberd can host ~2k active connections on $2/month server.
    - lxgr 6y ago
      Where can I get this $2/month server? The nice thing about client-side/end-to-end security is that the service provider matters less. Also, $2/month is $2 more than many people would be willing to pay for private messaging, and I can't message people on a network they're not on, no matter how much I pay.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
        Ionos.com And if you're privacy is worth less than $2/month, just use Telegram. It works way better than these messenges obsessed with privacy, precisely because it does not have encryption for most messages
        lxgr 6y ago
        > Ionos.com That looks a lot like a server hosted by somebody else in a data center. It's also way more hassle than almost all of my contacts would be willing to go through, and if only I self-host but they don't, it'll be Gmail all over. (Almost all emails go through Gmail because that's what at least one of the parties in an exchange is likely using.) Point-to-point encryption is not enough for messaging in today's network topology. > just use Telegram No thanks, I'll continue using one actually spending some effort on not being able to read the messages their users send. Fortunately most people in my country do. Ironically it's only a couple of people in my circle of friends worried about the privacy of said messenger switching to Telegram "because it's encrypted"...
rakoo 6y ago
> E2ee helps mostly against server owner, and you eliminate this risk by being your own server owner. Unfortunately you only eliminate it by being your own server owner _and_ your recipient being their own server owner. Take a look at email: I might not want to use e2ee because I self-host, but the second I send an email to a friend hosted on gmail, Google gets all the content. I think federation does have its place (for different reasons) but it unfortunately isn't enough for privacy.
lxgr 6y ago
> Just do it on your own server What if I don't have and don't want my own server?

mixedCase 6y ago

You run your own datacenter?

approxim8ion 6y ago
XMPP is extremely light, you can use a moderately powered personal computer to handle traffic from several users. I don't have the numbers with me but last I'd heard, the number was in the hundreds.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  ejabberd can host ~2k active connections on $2/month server.
  - lxgr 6y ago
    Where can I get this $2/month server? The nice thing about client-side/end-to-end security is that the service provider matters less. Also, $2/month is $2 more than many people would be willing to pay for private messaging, and I can't message people on a network they're not on, no matter how much I pay.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
      Ionos.com And if you're privacy is worth less than $2/month, just use Telegram. It works way better than these messenges obsessed with privacy, precisely because it does not have encryption for most messages
      - lxgr 6y ago
        > Ionos.com That looks a lot like a server hosted by somebody else in a data center. It's also way more hassle than almost all of my contacts would be willing to go through, and if only I self-host but they don't, it'll be Gmail all over. (Almost all emails go through Gmail because that's what at least one of the parties in an exchange is likely using.) Point-to-point encryption is not enough for messaging in today's network topology. > just use Telegram No thanks, I'll continue using one actually spending some effort on not being able to read the messages their users send. Fortunately most people in my country do. Ironically it's only a couple of people in my circle of friends worried about the privacy of said messenger switching to Telegram "because it's encrypted"...

rakoo 6y ago

> E2ee helps mostly against server owner, and you eliminate this risk by being your own server owner. Unfortunately you only eliminate it by being your own server owner _and_ your recipient being their own server owner. Take a look at email: I might not want to use e2ee because I self-host, but the second I send an email to a friend hosted on gmail, Google gets all the content. I think federation does have its place (for different reasons) but it unfortunately isn't enough for privacy.

lxgr 6y ago

> Just do it on your own server What if I don't have and don't want my own server?