6 ms·

I think the take-away here, which I've also experienced, is to get an IT job in an industry that does not appreciate IT - find a position that seems to involve

I think the take-away here, which I've also experienced, is to get an IT job in an industry that does not appreciate IT - find a position that seems to involve a TON of manual work - automate all of it - and DO NOT TELL anyone that you have automated those activities. If you are working from home, you could conceivably do this for multiple jobs (in theory, ethical considerations aside).

devtul 6y ago
I know a UX/UI guy that worked for two big canadian banks at the same time. He was moving to Bank B, and did it for three months, just enough to lock in his annual bonus on Bank A. Oh, and he was praised in Bank A for his work in this period.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Stories like this is what will get to management and have them force everyone back in to the office.
  - cocire 6y ago
    I don't get this reaction by management- if the work is getting done, who cares?!
    - nataz 6y ago
      Because $/resources are fungible, and your task isn't the only thing in the organization that needs resources. Assuming you are on salary, if you can legitimately do something in half the time, great, you should then move on to doing something else that contributes to the company. If you are on salary you are paid for your time and talent, not by the task. The right thing for management to do would be to reward you for being efficient (doesn't just have to be simple monetary, people are motivated by all kinds of things), and then reallocate those resources that we saved to some other need. This of course changes if you are on some kind of contract work.
      - projectileboy 6y ago
        Well... yes. But if the company suddenly becomes wildly more profitable because of work you’ve done will your salary grow in proportion? Of course not. I admire your work ethic, but you might want to consider just how asymmetric the employer/employee relationship is.
        nataz 6y ago
        If you miss a deadline or delay the launch of a product does the company dock your base pay? Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't optimize for your own goals. You do you, no judgement. What I am saying is that running a successful company means optimizing for the company, not the individual. And the best run companies make sure that the incentives of their staff are closely aligned with the company. If staff are functionally lying to their company about their output, something has gone wrong.
        sidlls 6y ago
        > If you miss a deadline or delay the launch of a product does the company dock your base pay? Inasmuch as it impacts the performance review, yes. Employees are held accountable to a much more extreme degree than gains are shared.
        SomeCallMeTim 6y ago
        > If staff are functionally lying to their company about their output, something has gone wrong. Problem is that productivity gains are extreme across most industries over the past fifty years, and except at the FAANG end of the income spectrum where people are making $300k+/year, those gains have been 100% absorbed by employers and not passed on to workers. As such, employers are the ones to have broken the social contract. Yes, they're pushed to do this because they can, and there are no penalties to dissuade them from this behavior (specifically because employee organizations/unions have fallen out of favor, though that may seem to be reversing recently). So it feels justified to provide a service to an employer for a fixed fee (a salary or weekly contract wage) in exchange for satisfactory work output, and to not work the hours the employer may assume you're working. It's a profoundly asymmetric relationship, and letting an employer believe you're working more hours for that work output--as long as they're happy with your work output!--is balanced by the fact that they're not paying you what you're worth to them. The latter is clearly true if they're continuing to be happy with your work output and you're working half as many hours as they may believe you to be working. And yet they absolutely wouldn't double your salary if you doubled your work output.
    - ajmurmann 6y ago
      Going back to the office might in fact make that situation worse. Now the person with time on their hands and low ambition isn't gonna suddenly get ambitious, but is gonna distract other people as well.
    - outside1234 6y ago
      And to be clear, "management" pulls these stunts all the time, so they might even be impressed.
    - cashsterling 6y ago
      They are going to force everyone back into the office anyhow... upper management tends to place high on the narcissism spectrum... they need to see, feel, and experience their kingdom in person for maximum narcissistic supply.
      - TimTheTinker 6y ago
        ^ and this is one of the major downsides of working for a pathological company.
    - news_hacker 6y ago
      I think the answer is because it's called "business" - if you're not busy it's "bad for the economy"
      - dredmorbius 6y ago
        "Business" is anxiety. https://www.etymonline.com/word/business https://www.etymonline.com/word/business
  - WhompingWindows 6y ago
    Management doesn't even need forum posts to force everyone, they will do it just for their own job security.
    - lvs 6y ago
      Yeah, this is definitely happening. They need to dominate your life to pretend their job has purpose.
- samstave 6y ago
  I have a very good friend, who was also a fairly accomplished engineer at Google for a time... He, in the past, had like five jobs - he outsourced all his work to devs in Croatia, and he would take on jobs and present the work on a regular basis - but he was doing none of it.
  - eclat 6y ago
    Winning at life.
SamuelAdams 6y ago
Ya know I've been considering taking on more jobs, but the biggest challenge is still being available for weekly meetings. Still need to appear in zoom calls on video for a status report.
- jaywalk 6y ago
  Find jobs that don't require that nonsense. They do exist. I don't have weekly meetings, and haven't seen my co-workers either physically or on a screen in over a year.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    What role exactly is that?
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      Senior developer on a smaller team.
    - gstomi 6y ago
      Gumroad offers that
- coding123 6y ago
  I did 3 software jobs at the same time for a period of a month. But I was actually working full/part/part so it was kinda back breaking - but I was being paid as a consultant so I was actively working hard..
  - SomeCallMeTim 6y ago
    I managed four concurrent "half-time" gigs once. Probably my most lucrative month ever.
graderjs 6y ago
The robots are coming for you and all of your slovenly kin.
- HPsquared 6y ago
  It's a Walter White moment - "I am the one who automates!"
miklosme 6y ago
> find a position that seems to involve a TON of manual work - automate all of it - and DO NOT TELL anyone This reminds me the article "Now That's What I Call a Hacker" [1], where a guy left behind his automation scripts when switched companies, which revealed some extreme scripts, like: > hangover.sh - another cron-job that is set to specific dates. Sends automated emails like "not feeling well/gonna work from home" etc. Adds a random "reason" from another predefined array of strings. Fires if there are no interactive sessions on the server at 8:45am. I'm putting this article and what you just said together. Now I think it's reasonable to believe there are a lot of IT professionals doing this, they are just hidden, because there is no reason to share this kind of works experience, as it makes sense in the competitive side of the industry. [1] https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/249-now-thats-what-i-call-a-hacker/ https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/249-now-thats-what-i-call-a-...
- toomanybeersies 6y ago
  > hangover.sh I almost created this myself some time ago, although not specifically for hangovers. I was envisioning a sort of dead man's switch, where if I didn't check in before a certain time it would send an SMS to my manager calling in sick. The main reason I didn't, was that I figured I was more likely to forget to check in (and be forced to use a sick day when I didn't "need" one) than be incapable of waking up, making the call on if I was in a workable state, and sending the SMS by myself.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    You could just make it message you first saying "Respond within 30 minutes to stop sick message from being sent"
dogman144 6y ago
> is to get an IT job in an industry that does not appreciate IT Yeah that's basically the gist. Needs enough IT for someone to steer it, doesn't need enough such that a complex env that requires an MSP to run things in that direction.

devtul 6y ago

I know a UX/UI guy that worked for two big canadian banks at the same time. He was moving to Bank B, and did it for three months, just enough to lock in his annual bonus on Bank A. Oh, and he was praised in Bank A for his work in this period.

koheripbal 6y ago
Stories like this is what will get to management and have them force everyone back in to the office.
- cocire 6y ago
  I don't get this reaction by management- if the work is getting done, who cares?!
  - nataz 6y ago
    Because $/resources are fungible, and your task isn't the only thing in the organization that needs resources. Assuming you are on salary, if you can legitimately do something in half the time, great, you should then move on to doing something else that contributes to the company. If you are on salary you are paid for your time and talent, not by the task. The right thing for management to do would be to reward you for being efficient (doesn't just have to be simple monetary, people are motivated by all kinds of things), and then reallocate those resources that we saved to some other need. This of course changes if you are on some kind of contract work.
    - projectileboy 6y ago
      Well... yes. But if the company suddenly becomes wildly more profitable because of work you’ve done will your salary grow in proportion? Of course not. I admire your work ethic, but you might want to consider just how asymmetric the employer/employee relationship is.
      - nataz 6y ago
        If you miss a deadline or delay the launch of a product does the company dock your base pay? Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't optimize for your own goals. You do you, no judgement. What I am saying is that running a successful company means optimizing for the company, not the individual. And the best run companies make sure that the incentives of their staff are closely aligned with the company. If staff are functionally lying to their company about their output, something has gone wrong.
        sidlls 6y ago
        > If you miss a deadline or delay the launch of a product does the company dock your base pay? Inasmuch as it impacts the performance review, yes. Employees are held accountable to a much more extreme degree than gains are shared.
        SomeCallMeTim 6y ago
        > If staff are functionally lying to their company about their output, something has gone wrong. Problem is that productivity gains are extreme across most industries over the past fifty years, and except at the FAANG end of the income spectrum where people are making $300k+/year, those gains have been 100% absorbed by employers and not passed on to workers. As such, employers are the ones to have broken the social contract. Yes, they're pushed to do this because they can, and there are no penalties to dissuade them from this behavior (specifically because employee organizations/unions have fallen out of favor, though that may seem to be reversing recently). So it feels justified to provide a service to an employer for a fixed fee (a salary or weekly contract wage) in exchange for satisfactory work output, and to not work the hours the employer may assume you're working. It's a profoundly asymmetric relationship, and letting an employer believe you're working more hours for that work output--as long as they're happy with your work output!--is balanced by the fact that they're not paying you what you're worth to them. The latter is clearly true if they're continuing to be happy with your work output and you're working half as many hours as they may believe you to be working. And yet they absolutely wouldn't double your salary if you doubled your work output.
  - ajmurmann 6y ago
    Going back to the office might in fact make that situation worse. Now the person with time on their hands and low ambition isn't gonna suddenly get ambitious, but is gonna distract other people as well.
  - outside1234 6y ago
    And to be clear, "management" pulls these stunts all the time, so they might even be impressed.
  - cashsterling 6y ago
    They are going to force everyone back into the office anyhow... upper management tends to place high on the narcissism spectrum... they need to see, feel, and experience their kingdom in person for maximum narcissistic supply.
    - TimTheTinker 6y ago
      ^ and this is one of the major downsides of working for a pathological company.
  - news_hacker 6y ago
    I think the answer is because it's called "business" - if you're not busy it's "bad for the economy"
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      "Business" is anxiety. https://www.etymonline.com/word/business https://www.etymonline.com/word/business
- WhompingWindows 6y ago
  Management doesn't even need forum posts to force everyone, they will do it just for their own job security.
  - lvs 6y ago
    Yeah, this is definitely happening. They need to dominate your life to pretend their job has purpose.
samstave 6y ago
I have a very good friend, who was also a fairly accomplished engineer at Google for a time... He, in the past, had like five jobs - he outsourced all his work to devs in Croatia, and he would take on jobs and present the work on a regular basis - but he was doing none of it.
- eclat 6y ago
  Winning at life.

SamuelAdams 6y ago

Ya know I've been considering taking on more jobs, but the biggest challenge is still being available for weekly meetings. Still need to appear in zoom calls on video for a status report.

jaywalk 6y ago
Find jobs that don't require that nonsense. They do exist. I don't have weekly meetings, and haven't seen my co-workers either physically or on a screen in over a year.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  What role exactly is that?
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    Senior developer on a smaller team.
  - gstomi 6y ago
    Gumroad offers that
coding123 6y ago
I did 3 software jobs at the same time for a period of a month. But I was actually working full/part/part so it was kinda back breaking - but I was being paid as a consultant so I was actively working hard..
- SomeCallMeTim 6y ago
  I managed four concurrent "half-time" gigs once. Probably my most lucrative month ever.

graderjs 6y ago

The robots are coming for you and all of your slovenly kin.

HPsquared 6y ago
It's a Walter White moment - "I am the one who automates!"

miklosme 6y ago

> find a position that seems to involve a TON of manual work - automate all of it - and DO NOT TELL anyone This reminds me the article "Now That's What I Call a Hacker" [1], where a guy left behind his automation scripts when switched companies, which revealed some extreme scripts, like: > hangover.sh - another cron-job that is set to specific dates. Sends automated emails like "not feeling well/gonna work from home" etc. Adds a random "reason" from another predefined array of strings. Fires if there are no interactive sessions on the server at 8:45am. I'm putting this article and what you just said together. Now I think it's reasonable to believe there are a lot of IT professionals doing this, they are just hidden, because there is no reason to share this kind of works experience, as it makes sense in the competitive side of the industry. [1] https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/249-now-thats-what-i-call-a-hacker/ https://www.jitbit.com/alexblog/249-now-thats-what-i-call-a-...

toomanybeersies 6y ago
> hangover.sh I almost created this myself some time ago, although not specifically for hangovers. I was envisioning a sort of dead man's switch, where if I didn't check in before a certain time it would send an SMS to my manager calling in sick. The main reason I didn't, was that I figured I was more likely to forget to check in (and be forced to use a sick day when I didn't "need" one) than be incapable of waking up, making the call on if I was in a workable state, and sending the SMS by myself.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  You could just make it message you first saying "Respond within 30 minutes to stop sick message from being sent"

dogman144 6y ago

> is to get an IT job in an industry that does not appreciate IT Yeah that's basically the gist. Needs enough IT for someone to steer it, doesn't need enough such that a complex env that requires an MSP to run things in that direction.