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I see no good way out of this, if someone forks it and removes all that extra attack surface I guess Moxie will fight it, as he doesn't want many compatible cli

I see no good way out of this, if someone forks it and removes all that extra attack surface I guess Moxie will fight it, as he doesn't want many compatible clients. And if the crypto features stays in there it will become another avenue for pump-and-dump schemes, so I can no longer recommend it to people without looking like a crypto hustler.

henearkr 6y ago
Fight it? How?
- ddevault 6y ago
  Moxie has a history of being an asshole to anyone trying to make a third-party client. They're prohibited from using the OWS servers, which do not federate (so they couldn't talk to Signal users), and Moxie has attacked third-party software over trademark issues, too. Any Signal fork is likely to be DoA, thanks to Moxie's deliberate actions.
  - growse 6y ago
    Not everyone agrees that protecting a brand and controlling who connects to and uses a service you run and pay for is "being an asshole". Lots of people pretty readily made the choice to move from WhatsApp to Signal when the benefits became clear. There's nothing stopping anyone from forking the client/server and running their own network - if there are meaningful benefits to end users of the fork, there should be no problem picking up traction.
    - ddevault 6y ago
      "Protecting the brand and controlling who connects to your service" is what put Moxie in a position of power from which cryptocurrency garbage could be introduced to scam money from its users. That's all there is to it. I call that being an asshole. Nothing stops you from forking the network, except for the fact that none of the users come along. Signal holds its users hostage. I call that being an asshole. Calling it open source and saying "anyone can fork it!", then threatening legal action against anyone who does just that and dares to mention the word Signal in their documentation? I call that being an asshole. Moxie is an asshole.
      - growse 6y ago
        > "Protecting the brand and controlling who connects to your service" is what put Moxie in a position of power from which cryptocurrency garbage could be introduced to scam money from its users. That's all there is to it. I call that being an asshole. I feel sad that you're apparently so angry about a piece of software. > Nothing stops you from forking the network, except for the fact that none of the users come along. Signal holds its users hostage. I call that being an asshole. The users have the choice to use it or not. If you build an alternative and noone uses it, it's not better. Like I said, more than a few people happily wandered over to signal from WhatsApp. Weren't those users "held hostage" by Facebook in the same way? > Calling it open source and saying "anyone can fork it!", then suing anyone who dares mention the word Signal in their documentation? I call that being an asshole. Who did he sue?
        dang 6y ago
        "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - dang 6y ago
        Come on Drew, you can't do this here. We ban accounts that do. I don't want to ban you. You're smart and do valuable work and I can feel that your heart is in the right place (edit: at least I hope it is—https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26723629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26723629 is pretty mean), but your comments that break the HN guidelines set an incredibly shitty example. You may not be coming from a mean place but plenty of other commenters will take this kind of thing as a free pass into forum hell. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - moistbar 6y ago
      If you don't want people to be able to fork your product, make it proprietary. Don't pretend to be open source and then attack people for exercising the rights that development model affords them.

henearkr 6y ago

Fight it? How?

ddevault 6y ago
Moxie has a history of being an asshole to anyone trying to make a third-party client. They're prohibited from using the OWS servers, which do not federate (so they couldn't talk to Signal users), and Moxie has attacked third-party software over trademark issues, too. Any Signal fork is likely to be DoA, thanks to Moxie's deliberate actions.
- growse 6y ago
  Not everyone agrees that protecting a brand and controlling who connects to and uses a service you run and pay for is "being an asshole". Lots of people pretty readily made the choice to move from WhatsApp to Signal when the benefits became clear. There's nothing stopping anyone from forking the client/server and running their own network - if there are meaningful benefits to end users of the fork, there should be no problem picking up traction.
  - ddevault 6y ago
    "Protecting the brand and controlling who connects to your service" is what put Moxie in a position of power from which cryptocurrency garbage could be introduced to scam money from its users. That's all there is to it. I call that being an asshole. Nothing stops you from forking the network, except for the fact that none of the users come along. Signal holds its users hostage. I call that being an asshole. Calling it open source and saying "anyone can fork it!", then threatening legal action against anyone who does just that and dares to mention the word Signal in their documentation? I call that being an asshole. Moxie is an asshole.
    - growse 6y ago
      > "Protecting the brand and controlling who connects to your service" is what put Moxie in a position of power from which cryptocurrency garbage could be introduced to scam money from its users. That's all there is to it. I call that being an asshole. I feel sad that you're apparently so angry about a piece of software. > Nothing stops you from forking the network, except for the fact that none of the users come along. Signal holds its users hostage. I call that being an asshole. The users have the choice to use it or not. If you build an alternative and noone uses it, it's not better. Like I said, more than a few people happily wandered over to signal from WhatsApp. Weren't those users "held hostage" by Facebook in the same way? > Calling it open source and saying "anyone can fork it!", then suing anyone who dares mention the word Signal in their documentation? I call that being an asshole. Who did he sue?
      - dang 6y ago
        "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 6y ago
      Come on Drew, you can't do this here. We ban accounts that do. I don't want to ban you. You're smart and do valuable work and I can feel that your heart is in the right place (edit: at least I hope it is—https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26723629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26723629 is pretty mean), but your comments that break the HN guidelines set an incredibly shitty example. You may not be coming from a mean place but plenty of other commenters will take this kind of thing as a free pass into forum hell. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - moistbar 6y ago
    If you don't want people to be able to fork your product, make it proprietary. Don't pretend to be open source and then attack people for exercising the rights that development model affords them.