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> building infrastructure on Earth takes forever China has built cities basically from scratch in few years, and big infrastructure very quickly, as a counterp

> building infrastructure on Earth takes forever China has built cities basically from scratch in few years, and big infrastructure very quickly, as a counterpoint.

WJW 6y ago
Yes, but only after they spent decades on building out their construction industry with lots of imported equipment from elsewhere. Mars will not be able to construct big roads and buildings until they bootstrap a concrete industry and they can't do that without a steel industry, and they can't do that without mining sites, which need vehicles and mining equipment, etc etc etc. All these things will need either large amounts of people (and thus food) or large amounts of automation (and thus microchips etc) and Mars will not be able to bootstrap either without billions and billions of investment from Earth.
- Teever 6y ago
  What's the minimum amount of mass/volume of equipment needed to bootstrap, and what is the doubling rate of this infrastructure?
  - WJW 6y ago
    Yes yes, we all know that exponential growth is pretty cool. But take into account that you can't explode outwards in the Martian environment like some algae growing in a food rich environment, every new person and every piece of infrastructure will need (a lot of) maintenance and that slows down doubling rate by a lot. You also can't use a lot of Earth-based shortcuts either, since there is no oxygen for fossil fuels and you won't be able to grow food in open atmosphere. Big industrial equipment is really heavy btw, so you could fit at most 1 or 2 pieces of big equipment in the 100 ton payload of a Starship rocket. It could easily be a few hundred launches just to get a proper scale foundry going on mars, if you take into account all the required auxiliary equipment like ore scrubbers, cranes and forklifts. Don't forget all the solar panels and/or nuclear plants for power generation too. It would probably be at least tens of billions of support from Earth. All in all, I would think that 5-10% growth rate is already pretty ambitious, leading to a doubling rate of 7 to 14 years. If you start your colony with about 50 people, it would rise to a thousand people in a little over 50 years.

> building infrastructure on Earth takes forever China has built cities basically from scratch in few years, and big infrastructure very quickly, as a counterpoint.

WJW 6y ago

Yes, but only after they spent decades on building out their construction industry with lots of imported equipment from elsewhere. Mars will not be able to construct big roads and buildings until they bootstrap a concrete industry and they can't do that without a steel industry, and they can't do that without mining sites, which need vehicles and mining equipment, etc etc etc. All these things will need either large amounts of people (and thus food) or large amounts of automation (and thus microchips etc) and Mars will not be able to bootstrap either without billions and billions of investment from Earth.

Teever 6y ago
What's the minimum amount of mass/volume of equipment needed to bootstrap, and what is the doubling rate of this infrastructure?
- WJW 6y ago
  Yes yes, we all know that exponential growth is pretty cool. But take into account that you can't explode outwards in the Martian environment like some algae growing in a food rich environment, every new person and every piece of infrastructure will need (a lot of) maintenance and that slows down doubling rate by a lot. You also can't use a lot of Earth-based shortcuts either, since there is no oxygen for fossil fuels and you won't be able to grow food in open atmosphere. Big industrial equipment is really heavy btw, so you could fit at most 1 or 2 pieces of big equipment in the 100 ton payload of a Starship rocket. It could easily be a few hundred launches just to get a proper scale foundry going on mars, if you take into account all the required auxiliary equipment like ore scrubbers, cranes and forklifts. Don't forget all the solar panels and/or nuclear plants for power generation too. It would probably be at least tens of billions of support from Earth. All in all, I would think that 5-10% growth rate is already pretty ambitious, leading to a doubling rate of 7 to 14 years. If you start your colony with about 50 people, it would rise to a thousand people in a little over 50 years.