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Googled: "no dependency" javascript framework 37k+ results. "no build" javascript framework 45k+ results. At this point I'd be seriously impressed by someone s

by Zobat 6y ago

Googled: "no dependency" javascript framework 37k+ results. "no build" javascript framework 45k+ results. At this point I'd be seriously impressed by someone saying "I didn't create a new JS framework, instead I contributed to an existing one".

SahAssar 6y ago
Yeah, I try to address this on the start page. I did contribute a bit to hyperapp for a while and used it professionally. They took a different path with v2 though and forking v1 to add the features listed proved to have a similar diff to writing it from scratch.
skinkestek 6y ago
Did you try looking past page three in the search results? And did you verify that at least a few of those pages contained the search terms? Because in my experience that is not given: - Google used to brag about crazy number of results but if I tried to go to page 5 it would admit there weren't any. I guess it was a naive bloom filter or something out of my league that caused it - and those that knew didn't care because it looked good for 99,999% of the users. - Google has happily ignored double quotes for well over a decade now. Lately I've had some success by using the plus operator immediately in front of the doublequotes. Side note: I feel hesitant to write that. An UX-er from Google might notice it and fix that bug to make it consistent (consistently useless, that would be) :-/ These days I use DDG as default though and after being fooled a lot of times and one too many I don't even bother to look behind page 2 on Google since years ago.
lucideer 6y ago
Ah yes, the three levels of laziness: - writing new frameworks - contributing to existing frameworks - commenting on HN deriding those writing new frameworks I don't know what the keywords are to Google for the 3rd type, but I suspect the result count would be the highest of all.
mszcz 6y ago
Yeah, same here. This framework development frenzy seems to me like procrastination from doing actual work. 'Gee, I finally have time to do this web site I always wanted! Well, let's start with the OS my custom browser will run on!'. Please note, that this is not a dig at this particular project. I'm sure it's nice and all but I'm never going to use it because 1) what's the chance this'll be around and maintained in 6 months time? 2) no community support, probably no way to ask questions or see other people's questions, 3) what's the chance that 1 & 2 will change in a couple of months? This line of reasoning can be applied to most of the new frameworks out there I think.
- majkinetor 6y ago
  Its not exactly procrastination because while creating framework you are deep into topic and amassed knowledge helps you in general, no ? You can't understand anything until you build it.
  - javajosh 6y ago
    In general you shouldn't be creating a framework, you should be making an application.
    - majkinetor 6y ago
      In general, any non-trivial application uses micro-frameworks (that you write) and macro-frameworks (that you use or write).
      - creshal 6y ago
        Not every reusable piece of code is a framework.
        atat7024 6y ago
        It kinda is, if someone packages it up and calls it that
dang 6y ago
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html There are also additional guidelines for Show HN threads: Be respectful. Anyone sharing work is making a contribution, however modest. Ask questions out of curiosity. Don't cross-examine. Instead of "you're doing it wrong", suggest alternatives. When someone is learning, help them learn more. When something isn't good, you needn't pretend that it is, but don't be gratuitously negative. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html

by Zobat 6y ago

SahAssar 6y ago

Yeah, I try to address this on the start page. I did contribute a bit to hyperapp for a while and used it professionally. They took a different path with v2 though and forking v1 to add the features listed proved to have a similar diff to writing it from scratch.

skinkestek 6y ago

Did you try looking past page three in the search results? And did you verify that at least a few of those pages contained the search terms? Because in my experience that is not given: - Google used to brag about crazy number of results but if I tried to go to page 5 it would admit there weren't any. I guess it was a naive bloom filter or something out of my league that caused it - and those that knew didn't care because it looked good for 99,999% of the users. - Google has happily ignored double quotes for well over a decade now. Lately I've had some success by using the plus operator immediately in front of the doublequotes. Side note: I feel hesitant to write that. An UX-er from Google might notice it and fix that bug to make it consistent (consistently useless, that would be) :-/ These days I use DDG as default though and after being fooled a lot of times and one too many I don't even bother to look behind page 2 on Google since years ago.

lucideer 6y ago

Ah yes, the three levels of laziness: - writing new frameworks - contributing to existing frameworks - commenting on HN deriding those writing new frameworks I don't know what the keywords are to Google for the 3rd type, but I suspect the result count would be the highest of all.

mszcz 6y ago

Yeah, same here. This framework development frenzy seems to me like procrastination from doing actual work. 'Gee, I finally have time to do this web site I always wanted! Well, let's start with the OS my custom browser will run on!'. Please note, that this is not a dig at this particular project. I'm sure it's nice and all but I'm never going to use it because 1) what's the chance this'll be around and maintained in 6 months time? 2) no community support, probably no way to ask questions or see other people's questions, 3) what's the chance that 1 & 2 will change in a couple of months? This line of reasoning can be applied to most of the new frameworks out there I think.

majkinetor 6y ago
Its not exactly procrastination because while creating framework you are deep into topic and amassed knowledge helps you in general, no ? You can't understand anything until you build it.
- javajosh 6y ago
  In general you shouldn't be creating a framework, you should be making an application.
  - majkinetor 6y ago
    In general, any non-trivial application uses micro-frameworks (that you write) and macro-frameworks (that you use or write).
    - creshal 6y ago
      Not every reusable piece of code is a framework.
      - atat7024 6y ago
        It kinda is, if someone packages it up and calls it that

dang 6y ago

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html There are also additional guidelines for Show HN threads: Be respectful. Anyone sharing work is making a contribution, however modest. Ask questions out of curiosity. Don't cross-examine. Instead of "you're doing it wrong", suggest alternatives. When someone is learning, help them learn more. When something isn't good, you needn't pretend that it is, but don't be gratuitously negative. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html