6 ms·

My father recently died and while things like these may trigger some slight pain, that's just life. You have to get the fuck over it. It's never worth accommod

My father recently died and while things like these may trigger some slight pain, that's just life. You have to get the fuck over it. It's never worth accommodating the easily offended, especially on the Internet.

fleitz 15y ago
Couldn't agree with you more, my dad passed about 7 years ago, the OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues. If I was her father I'd be glad she didn't call. There's a great way for the complainers to get rid of the message, stop using a service provided to you for FREE. Pay for your own server, own web interface, own backups, etc then there will be no "Call Dad" button. Until then deal with the fact that most fathers, sons, and daughters like each other and it's a good day to catch up. The really great part is that later today my kids will be using Gmail to video conference with me. Kudos to Google.
- wvoq 15y ago
  > the OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues. Just bookmarking this for the next time someone insists that the folks on hacker news are an egalitarian bunch who would never tolerate casual sexism.
  - irragal 15y ago
    What exactly is the casual sexism here?
    - wvoq 15y ago
      "Daddy issues" is a sexualized pop-Freudian phrase applied only to women. Lots of men, myself included, had rocky relationships with their fathers that caused some emotional harm and affected their later relationships, but you'll never hear immature or irresponsible men described as suffering from "daddy issues". Moreover, the original request was a completely reasonable one: "I don't know how to turn this feature off: I've tried this and this, but it didn't work. What should I do?" When you ask a technical question and receive irrelevant, sexualized and emotionally condescending comments in response, I think that's prima facie evidence of sexism.
- joshuafcole 15y ago
  I couldn't agree more on this. I don't always agree with everything Google does, but they provide some damned fine services for free. It's kind of hard to complain in light of that. Furthermore, every single comment that had been made disregarded both all of the users that hadn't lost their fathers, and more importantly all of the users such as yourself that had but are well-adjusted human beings that can deal with loss. I just hope it doesn't ruin any Google engineers' day because a bunch of lusers felt the need to complain about a gesture of kindness.
  - Klinky 15y ago
    Why exactly do people who have a great relationship with their father even need a reminder to call their father on Father's Day? Should we make a shallow & judgmental accusation that those who can't remember to call their father on Father's Day don't really love their father & are maladjusted "lusers"?
    - yesimahuman 15y ago
      It's more of a reminder that today is actually father's day. This is not the same as not calling your father when you are fully aware it is father's day.
      - Klinky 15y ago
        The intention may have been innocent, but the execution was flawed. Make it obvious it's a generic reminder & give an easy way to turn it off. Instead it looked like it was a personal reminder that someone set themselves & there is no easy way to turn it off. Heck I am not even emotionally attached to it, but I really hate nag screens, so I'd rather shut the reminder off if I've already called dad or am not planning to. Also my point was more aimed at 'joshuafcole' who seems to think grieving over the loss of a father or the loss of a childhood due to an abusive father means that you're not "well adjusted". It's an overly broad blanket statement that expects people to deal with life events like robots in exactly the same way. Events that it sounds like 'joshuafcole' never dealt with, so he probably doesn't have the best idea on the repercussions every scenario presents. So my retort was the overly-broad generalization that people who need a reminder to remember it's Father's Day must not be "well adjusted" or really love their father.
- blauwbilgorgel 15y ago
  > The OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues I don't think you should diagnose people like that over the internet. Anyway, it is not a crime to have daddy issues and it certainly shouldn't be used as an argument not to post tickets. > If I was her father I'd be glad she didn't call This made me angry reading it. This is a really hurtful statement and telling of your personality. I won't use this statement to diagnose you, but please reread what you said there, and ask yourself if it was necessary. > stop using a service provided to you for FREE Gmail isn't "free", it gathers information for targeted advertisements. Facebook isn't "free" and even it was completely free that doesn't dictate we can't complain about insensitive actions or privacy violations. > deal with the fact that most fathers, sons, and daughters like each other Because OP on the ticket didn't like her father? It is a weird fact to force me to deal with, just for using a "free" service. > the really great part... That isn't a part of the story at all, more like a weird gloating I don't understand how it fits in. To me this _is_ a mistake. It is a feature that made Gmail less usable today for some. Who did this feature benefit? Those that didn't care about their father enough to forget to call and need the call-to-action? I bet your wonderful kids wouldn't need a reminder so what did you get out of this feature to give kudos?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - blauwbilgorgel 15y ago
      The way I see it is that both Gmail wants her as a customer to click on ads, and she wants to use the Gmail service, because she likes most features. In that view pushing her to stop using the service is a loss for both, I can not see that being the best solution. In my opinion saying "Happy fathers day" or having a Google Doodle is one thing. Putting it like a reminder in a personal setting, when you for example don't want to speak with your abusive father, is another.
    - Klinky 15y ago
      So anytime a service or piece of software does something frustrating your solution is to drop it & never communicate with the developer what the problem might be? I would say that filtering out the Google Doodle or generic Happy Fathers Day greetings is easier than something that looks like a personal reminder to call dad on your personal contact list. One that is difficult to remove.
ditojim 15y ago
I lost my father a couple of years ago. I like being reminded of him, personally. Today is a good day for that.
- vonwaldeck 15y ago
  that is a great way of looking at it. people need to stop being so sensitive. same goes to fleitz and schrototo
  - iamdave 15y ago
    Seems like the context of their posts went over your head by a mile, because I don't think they're being sensitive. But I could be wrong. It was the "get the fuck over it" part that tipped me off. Again, could be wrong.
    - stan_rogers 15y ago
      The "same goes to" appears to refer to "what a great way of looking at it", not "stop being so sensitive".
  - enneff 15y ago
    > people need to stop being so sensitive That's pretty callous. I wouldn't say that to someone who was abused by their father.
RossDM 15y ago
I hate labeling people as "easily offended", but to complain about something like this seems excessive. If your father died would you presume to insist that your mother take down all his photos?
- gnaffle 15y ago
  I guess if his mother entered his room without asking and hung up pictures of his dead father, most people would think that the mother was a bit inconsiderate. Of course, some people would claim that his room was not a personal space, and the house was owned and controlled by the mother anyway.
jonkelly 15y ago
Agreed. I'm dreading calling my dad because he has dementia and severe hearing loss, but I'm glad Google is showing a bit of humanity.
djcapelis 15y ago
It's the difference between seeing something that annoys you and moving on and having something that someone else stuck into your reminder list that you can't delete. No one is complaining about Google's fathers day doodle, people are complaining that Google put in reminders they don't want into a space they view as theirs and there's no way to get rid of them. I'm glad you presumably had a good relationship with your father when he was alive. It might be worth remembering that this type of thing can be really rather painful and/or awkward for people who had fathers that weren't very nice people, were never around and they can't contact or came from a family with two mothers. No one's saying people shouldn't talk about Father's day, but hijacking your user's reminder lists and sticking in stuff they can't get rid of because you think it's cool is just not a very nice thing to do.
- kajecounterhack 15y ago
  > Google put in reminders (...) there's no way to get rid of them. Not making a point but one way to not see the doodles is to use a custom background. It makes the Google logo plain.
- baddox 15y ago
  The issue you describe is legitimate: having an unsolicited reminder that can't be deleted is a bad choice, period. The parts about being offended because of a lousy or recently late father are unnecessary and unhelpful appeals to emotion.
  - branden 15y ago
    Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem. That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.
    - baddox 15y ago
easyfrag 15y ago
Maybe I'm too cynical but it doesn't feel like this was a cutesy addition by a lone engineer, it rather feels like a marketing ploy to get more people to think about using the calling features.
- fleitz 15y ago
  It's actually more of a PR ploy. The reason people love Google so much is because they are constantly contextualizing their service. Google voice just moved from being able to make calls to connecting you to your father which creates a much better bond between the users of the service and the service by invoking emotion. The fact that they are getting complaints only highlights how effective it is. Google contextualizes their services to their audience, Android isn't about making phone calls, it's about 'open source'. Why? Because they need a bunch of developers to have an emotional reason to turn down the app store to write Android apps. Now that they have a competitive platform they can drop that rhetoric and focus on contexualizing Android to everyone who isn't a developer. In human beings emotionality will trump rationality about 99% of the time, the remainder will be labeled heartless and ignored. For an in depth discussion about PR/Sales/Marketing. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/20/coloring-the-whole-egg-fixing-integrated-marketing/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/20/coloring-the-whole-egg-...
chrismealy 15y ago
Fuck you pal. I'll decide when I get over what.

fleitz 15y ago

Couldn't agree with you more, my dad passed about 7 years ago, the OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues. If I was her father I'd be glad she didn't call. There's a great way for the complainers to get rid of the message, stop using a service provided to you for FREE. Pay for your own server, own web interface, own backups, etc then there will be no "Call Dad" button. Until then deal with the fact that most fathers, sons, and daughters like each other and it's a good day to catch up. The really great part is that later today my kids will be using Gmail to video conference with me. Kudos to Google.

wvoq 15y ago
> the OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues. Just bookmarking this for the next time someone insists that the folks on hacker news are an egalitarian bunch who would never tolerate casual sexism.
- irragal 15y ago
  What exactly is the casual sexism here?
  - wvoq 15y ago
    "Daddy issues" is a sexualized pop-Freudian phrase applied only to women. Lots of men, myself included, had rocky relationships with their fathers that caused some emotional harm and affected their later relationships, but you'll never hear immature or irresponsible men described as suffering from "daddy issues". Moreover, the original request was a completely reasonable one: "I don't know how to turn this feature off: I've tried this and this, but it didn't work. What should I do?" When you ask a technical question and receive irrelevant, sexualized and emotionally condescending comments in response, I think that's prima facie evidence of sexism.
joshuafcole 15y ago
I couldn't agree more on this. I don't always agree with everything Google does, but they provide some damned fine services for free. It's kind of hard to complain in light of that. Furthermore, every single comment that had been made disregarded both all of the users that hadn't lost their fathers, and more importantly all of the users such as yourself that had but are well-adjusted human beings that can deal with loss. I just hope it doesn't ruin any Google engineers' day because a bunch of lusers felt the need to complain about a gesture of kindness.
- Klinky 15y ago
  Why exactly do people who have a great relationship with their father even need a reminder to call their father on Father's Day? Should we make a shallow & judgmental accusation that those who can't remember to call their father on Father's Day don't really love their father & are maladjusted "lusers"?
  - yesimahuman 15y ago
    It's more of a reminder that today is actually father's day. This is not the same as not calling your father when you are fully aware it is father's day.
    - Klinky 15y ago
      The intention may have been innocent, but the execution was flawed. Make it obvious it's a generic reminder & give an easy way to turn it off. Instead it looked like it was a personal reminder that someone set themselves & there is no easy way to turn it off. Heck I am not even emotionally attached to it, but I really hate nag screens, so I'd rather shut the reminder off if I've already called dad or am not planning to. Also my point was more aimed at 'joshuafcole' who seems to think grieving over the loss of a father or the loss of a childhood due to an abusive father means that you're not "well adjusted". It's an overly broad blanket statement that expects people to deal with life events like robots in exactly the same way. Events that it sounds like 'joshuafcole' never dealt with, so he probably doesn't have the best idea on the repercussions every scenario presents. So my retort was the overly-broad generalization that people who need a reminder to remember it's Father's Day must not be "well adjusted" or really love their father.
blauwbilgorgel 15y ago
> The OP on the ticket seems to have daddy issues I don't think you should diagnose people like that over the internet. Anyway, it is not a crime to have daddy issues and it certainly shouldn't be used as an argument not to post tickets. > If I was her father I'd be glad she didn't call This made me angry reading it. This is a really hurtful statement and telling of your personality. I won't use this statement to diagnose you, but please reread what you said there, and ask yourself if it was necessary. > stop using a service provided to you for FREE Gmail isn't "free", it gathers information for targeted advertisements. Facebook isn't "free" and even it was completely free that doesn't dictate we can't complain about insensitive actions or privacy violations. > deal with the fact that most fathers, sons, and daughters like each other Because OP on the ticket didn't like her father? It is a weird fact to force me to deal with, just for using a "free" service. > the really great part... That isn't a part of the story at all, more like a weird gloating I don't understand how it fits in. To me this _is_ a mistake. It is a feature that made Gmail less usable today for some. Who did this feature benefit? Those that didn't care about their father enough to forget to call and need the call-to-action? I bet your wonderful kids wouldn't need a reminder so what did you get out of this feature to give kudos?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - blauwbilgorgel 15y ago
    The way I see it is that both Gmail wants her as a customer to click on ads, and she wants to use the Gmail service, because she likes most features. In that view pushing her to stop using the service is a loss for both, I can not see that being the best solution. In my opinion saying "Happy fathers day" or having a Google Doodle is one thing. Putting it like a reminder in a personal setting, when you for example don't want to speak with your abusive father, is another.
  - Klinky 15y ago
    So anytime a service or piece of software does something frustrating your solution is to drop it & never communicate with the developer what the problem might be? I would say that filtering out the Google Doodle or generic Happy Fathers Day greetings is easier than something that looks like a personal reminder to call dad on your personal contact list. One that is difficult to remove.

ditojim 15y ago

I lost my father a couple of years ago. I like being reminded of him, personally. Today is a good day for that.

vonwaldeck 15y ago
that is a great way of looking at it. people need to stop being so sensitive. same goes to fleitz and schrototo
- iamdave 15y ago
  Seems like the context of their posts went over your head by a mile, because I don't think they're being sensitive. But I could be wrong. It was the "get the fuck over it" part that tipped me off. Again, could be wrong.
  - stan_rogers 15y ago
    The "same goes to" appears to refer to "what a great way of looking at it", not "stop being so sensitive".
- enneff 15y ago
  > people need to stop being so sensitive That's pretty callous. I wouldn't say that to someone who was abused by their father.

RossDM 15y ago

I hate labeling people as "easily offended", but to complain about something like this seems excessive. If your father died would you presume to insist that your mother take down all his photos?

gnaffle 15y ago
I guess if his mother entered his room without asking and hung up pictures of his dead father, most people would think that the mother was a bit inconsiderate. Of course, some people would claim that his room was not a personal space, and the house was owned and controlled by the mother anyway.

jonkelly 15y ago

Agreed. I'm dreading calling my dad because he has dementia and severe hearing loss, but I'm glad Google is showing a bit of humanity.

djcapelis 15y ago

It's the difference between seeing something that annoys you and moving on and having something that someone else stuck into your reminder list that you can't delete. No one is complaining about Google's fathers day doodle, people are complaining that Google put in reminders they don't want into a space they view as theirs and there's no way to get rid of them. I'm glad you presumably had a good relationship with your father when he was alive. It might be worth remembering that this type of thing can be really rather painful and/or awkward for people who had fathers that weren't very nice people, were never around and they can't contact or came from a family with two mothers. No one's saying people shouldn't talk about Father's day, but hijacking your user's reminder lists and sticking in stuff they can't get rid of because you think it's cool is just not a very nice thing to do.

kajecounterhack 15y ago
> Google put in reminders (...) there's no way to get rid of them. Not making a point but one way to not see the doodles is to use a custom background. It makes the Google logo plain.
baddox 15y ago
The issue you describe is legitimate: having an unsolicited reminder that can't be deleted is a bad choice, period. The parts about being offended because of a lousy or recently late father are unnecessary and unhelpful appeals to emotion.
- branden 15y ago
  Those are completely valid appeals to emotion, because it is the emotional context of the reminder that makes it significant. If you don't understand why someone might feel bad after seeing that show up in their todo list, then you don't understand the problem. That said, as someone with pretty unhappy history with his father, I think what Google did here is fine. But really, not every emotional appeal is a fallacy.
  - baddox 15y ago

easyfrag 15y ago

Maybe I'm too cynical but it doesn't feel like this was a cutesy addition by a lone engineer, it rather feels like a marketing ploy to get more people to think about using the calling features.

fleitz 15y ago
It's actually more of a PR ploy. The reason people love Google so much is because they are constantly contextualizing their service. Google voice just moved from being able to make calls to connecting you to your father which creates a much better bond between the users of the service and the service by invoking emotion. The fact that they are getting complaints only highlights how effective it is. Google contextualizes their services to their audience, Android isn't about making phone calls, it's about 'open source'. Why? Because they need a bunch of developers to have an emotional reason to turn down the app store to write Android apps. Now that they have a competitive platform they can drop that rhetoric and focus on contexualizing Android to everyone who isn't a developer. In human beings emotionality will trump rationality about 99% of the time, the remainder will be labeled heartless and ignored. For an in depth discussion about PR/Sales/Marketing. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/20/coloring-the-whole-egg-fixing-integrated-marketing/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/20/coloring-the-whole-egg-...

chrismealy 15y ago

Fuck you pal. I'll decide when I get over what.