4 ms·

I feel like this is a good time to remind you, and everyone: never talk to federal agents. FBI, Fish and Game, Secret Service. Don't. They can say you told them

I feel like this is a good time to remind you, and everyone: never talk to federal agents. FBI, Fish and Game, Secret Service. Don't. They can say you told them anything, and guess what? It's a felony to lie to them. They will push a pre-written statement in front of you and if you refuse to sign it they will threaten you with saying you lied to them. Don't. Talk. To. Feds. Ever.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago
> Don't. Talk. To. Feds. Ever. This is the lesson I learned to teach to my kids. I didn't get to this complete turnaround easily. It took years of systemic, post-911 malfeasance (and endless accompanying lies) by pretty much every fed LEO/IC agency, to nurture this mindset in me.
- wildmanx 6y ago
  Let me play the devils advocate here.. How are they supposed to investigate crime if nobody talks to them?
  - 317070 6y ago
    I speak for myself here, but it is not that I would recommend against talking in principle. Only, in practice the system is set up for talking to be universally a bad idea. If the system puts in place some better checks and balances for people to fight abuses (as the one in the post on top), I will gladly go back and do my civic duties to stop crime. So, how are they supposed to investigate if nobody talks? They are supposed to fight for better checks and balances, so people can start talking again.
  - dTal 6y ago
    That's not really devil's advocate, just a great example of the many corrosive effects of an untrustworthy government.
  - danShumway 6y ago
    As an analogy, Punching Jim down by the corner store punches everybody in the face who talks to him, so everyone has stopped talking to him. But how is Punching Jim supposed to fulfill his job as a therapist if his patients are constantly afraid of being punched? The answer is that Punching Jim might just be a bad therapist, and maybe it's good for therapists that punch people in the face to have fewer patients. Nobody forces the FBI to have the system they have. We could have laws that make interrogation different. We could have laws that change the consequences of accidentally lying to federal agents, that raise the legal standard for consequential lies. The FBI could get rid of the no-fly list, they could stop threatening innocent security researchers to get info. We could get rid of "gotcha" interrogation techniques that are explicitly designed to try and trick people into signing away their rights. They built this system, and nobody but them is to blame for it. If the FBI wants people to talk to them, they just need to stop punching people in the face. A lack of informants is a problem they created and that they can solve.
  - roget 6y ago
    The FBI doesn't investigate crime. It commits crimes. The FBI is Ammurica's foremost terrorist organization, and all of its agents are terrorists.
jamesponddotco 6y ago
As the son of a cop, I learned very early on that you should never talk to cops or any law enforcement. They are not on your side.
- dx034 6y ago
  Maybe in the US. That's not really what you learn in Europe. Talking to police doesn't get you in trouble. Lying to police also isn't illegal (unless you make up stories to damage others). I've been in many European countries and have travelled a lot to the US. I've never experienced a disconnect between police and the general population as stark as it is in the US. And it has also affected me. Seeing police anywhere tends to comfort me, in the US it makes me nervous. To be clear, I've never had any negative experiences with police anywhere myself, but stories about bad cops are just so prevalent in the US.
  - just_testing 6y ago
    I know way too many stories of racist cops in Europe to believe talking to police doesn't get you in trouble in Europe also. P.S.: I do have european citizenship. Also, dark skin.
  - jamesponddotco 6y ago
    I have no experience with law enforcement in the US, my comment was related to my experience where I live, Brazil. My dad taught me early on that talking to cops would likely get me into trouble, as they want to make an arrest, and it does not matter if you are guilty or not, as long as they get you to confess. Later experiences taught me that my dad, a well known and liked cop in our town, was not someone to be trusted either.
koheripbal 6y ago
I have seen court filings where investigators misinterpreted things people have said in an interview, then weeks later accused them of lying and filed charges of obstruction. Imagine it: You agree to an interview because you are a witness to a crime, tell 100% the truth, but then they take notes, misinterpret their own notes (either intentionally or due to incompetence), and then charge you with lying/obstruction. I've seen it happen to completely innocent people. Sadly, the best advice is not to talk to investigators.

WarOnPrivacy 6y ago

> Don't. Talk. To. Feds. Ever. This is the lesson I learned to teach to my kids. I didn't get to this complete turnaround easily. It took years of systemic, post-911 malfeasance (and endless accompanying lies) by pretty much every fed LEO/IC agency, to nurture this mindset in me.

wildmanx 6y ago
Let me play the devils advocate here.. How are they supposed to investigate crime if nobody talks to them?
- 317070 6y ago
  I speak for myself here, but it is not that I would recommend against talking in principle. Only, in practice the system is set up for talking to be universally a bad idea. If the system puts in place some better checks and balances for people to fight abuses (as the one in the post on top), I will gladly go back and do my civic duties to stop crime. So, how are they supposed to investigate if nobody talks? They are supposed to fight for better checks and balances, so people can start talking again.
- dTal 6y ago
  That's not really devil's advocate, just a great example of the many corrosive effects of an untrustworthy government.
- danShumway 6y ago
  As an analogy, Punching Jim down by the corner store punches everybody in the face who talks to him, so everyone has stopped talking to him. But how is Punching Jim supposed to fulfill his job as a therapist if his patients are constantly afraid of being punched? The answer is that Punching Jim might just be a bad therapist, and maybe it's good for therapists that punch people in the face to have fewer patients. Nobody forces the FBI to have the system they have. We could have laws that make interrogation different. We could have laws that change the consequences of accidentally lying to federal agents, that raise the legal standard for consequential lies. The FBI could get rid of the no-fly list, they could stop threatening innocent security researchers to get info. We could get rid of "gotcha" interrogation techniques that are explicitly designed to try and trick people into signing away their rights. They built this system, and nobody but them is to blame for it. If the FBI wants people to talk to them, they just need to stop punching people in the face. A lack of informants is a problem they created and that they can solve.
- roget 6y ago
  The FBI doesn't investigate crime. It commits crimes. The FBI is Ammurica's foremost terrorist organization, and all of its agents are terrorists.

jamesponddotco 6y ago

As the son of a cop, I learned very early on that you should never talk to cops or any law enforcement. They are not on your side.

dx034 6y ago
Maybe in the US. That's not really what you learn in Europe. Talking to police doesn't get you in trouble. Lying to police also isn't illegal (unless you make up stories to damage others). I've been in many European countries and have travelled a lot to the US. I've never experienced a disconnect between police and the general population as stark as it is in the US. And it has also affected me. Seeing police anywhere tends to comfort me, in the US it makes me nervous. To be clear, I've never had any negative experiences with police anywhere myself, but stories about bad cops are just so prevalent in the US.
- just_testing 6y ago
  I know way too many stories of racist cops in Europe to believe talking to police doesn't get you in trouble in Europe also. P.S.: I do have european citizenship. Also, dark skin.
- jamesponddotco 6y ago
  I have no experience with law enforcement in the US, my comment was related to my experience where I live, Brazil. My dad taught me early on that talking to cops would likely get me into trouble, as they want to make an arrest, and it does not matter if you are guilty or not, as long as they get you to confess. Later experiences taught me that my dad, a well known and liked cop in our town, was not someone to be trusted either.

koheripbal 6y ago

I have seen court filings where investigators misinterpreted things people have said in an interview, then weeks later accused them of lying and filed charges of obstruction. Imagine it: You agree to an interview because you are a witness to a crime, tell 100% the truth, but then they take notes, misinterpret their own notes (either intentionally or due to incompetence), and then charge you with lying/obstruction. I've seen it happen to completely innocent people. Sadly, the best advice is not to talk to investigators.