4 ms·

> Employees were also expected to "live within commuting distance" of offices. I can't see how the must-be-in-office companies think they win this in the long

> Employees were also expected to "live within commuting distance" of offices. I can't see how the must-be-in-office companies think they win this in the long term. All the companies that want to poach from FAANG will offer remote work

outside1234 6y ago
They aren't going to win this without tossing titanic amounts of money around to land folks that are willing to do this.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  You assume that developers won't work for lower salaries, in exchange for the value that WFH provides?
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    In practice, I've found that most candidates don't really care about anything other than total compensation. I've worked at companies that offered private offices, work from home, great health insurance, flexible schedules, catered lunch every day, and all of the usual perks. We'd still lose out on hires to companies offering a couple thousand more than we did. Come decision time, few people are actually willing to take the lower number. People willing to compromise compensation for other benefits are out there, but they're more rare than you might think.
    - faeriechangling 6y ago
      Netflix was pretty famous for pushing the idea that employees respond to cash more than anything else and did a lot to promote this idea among hot tech companies and I absolutely believe this is the mindset many managers have. I've got to say though even if people are obsessed with the bottom line when it comes to picking a job, I've got to think stuff like WFH also impacts retention in some way. For me I'm physically healthier under WFH which means just my ability to keep a job skews me towards WFH jobs even before we consider preference.
      - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
        > I absolutely believe this is the mindset many managers have I went into this thinking Netflix was wrong and that most employees valued the big picture more than total comp. For the most part, the hiring market proved me wrong and Netflix right. :)
ryandrake 6y ago
They are probably betting that this isn’t that big a deal for those of us that like remote work, and that ultimately when the day comes, we’d be unwilling to quit over it. We will see how well that ultimatum works out for them.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
> All the companies that want to poach from FAANG will offer remote work Some people will always pick remote jobs over all else, but the high compensation of FAANG is a huge hurdle to overcome for most employees. Companies willing to pay FAANG competitive compensation and let people work fully remote are few and far between. Most companies that start hiring remote quickly discover that they can save on compensation by hiring from locations where people don't have FAANG as an option.
sanderjd 6y ago
Something a lot of comments here seem to be missing: lots of people (anecdotally I would say it's most people) prefer an office to working remotely. So companies that don't offer remote work will limit their hiring pool a bit, but remote-only companies will also limit their hiring pool by turning off people who want to go into an office.
- rurp 6y ago
  Sure but before the pandemic probably 99% of office jobs were onsite. If 15% of workers prefer remote while only 1% of companies operate that way, being remote will be a competitive advantage for companies that do it for the foreseeable future.
  - sanderjd 6y ago
    Agreed, I do think there will be a lot of rebalancing going on. Though I think your numbers are a bit off; this was already a phenomenon pre-pandemic, though I do agree that it will accelerate.

outside1234 6y ago

They aren't going to win this without tossing titanic amounts of money around to land folks that are willing to do this.

throwawayboise 6y ago
You assume that developers won't work for lower salaries, in exchange for the value that WFH provides?
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  In practice, I've found that most candidates don't really care about anything other than total compensation. I've worked at companies that offered private offices, work from home, great health insurance, flexible schedules, catered lunch every day, and all of the usual perks. We'd still lose out on hires to companies offering a couple thousand more than we did. Come decision time, few people are actually willing to take the lower number. People willing to compromise compensation for other benefits are out there, but they're more rare than you might think.
  - faeriechangling 6y ago
    Netflix was pretty famous for pushing the idea that employees respond to cash more than anything else and did a lot to promote this idea among hot tech companies and I absolutely believe this is the mindset many managers have. I've got to say though even if people are obsessed with the bottom line when it comes to picking a job, I've got to think stuff like WFH also impacts retention in some way. For me I'm physically healthier under WFH which means just my ability to keep a job skews me towards WFH jobs even before we consider preference.
    - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
      > I absolutely believe this is the mindset many managers have I went into this thinking Netflix was wrong and that most employees valued the big picture more than total comp. For the most part, the hiring market proved me wrong and Netflix right. :)

ryandrake 6y ago

They are probably betting that this isn’t that big a deal for those of us that like remote work, and that ultimately when the day comes, we’d be unwilling to quit over it. We will see how well that ultimatum works out for them.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

> All the companies that want to poach from FAANG will offer remote work Some people will always pick remote jobs over all else, but the high compensation of FAANG is a huge hurdle to overcome for most employees. Companies willing to pay FAANG competitive compensation and let people work fully remote are few and far between. Most companies that start hiring remote quickly discover that they can save on compensation by hiring from locations where people don't have FAANG as an option.

sanderjd 6y ago

Something a lot of comments here seem to be missing: lots of people (anecdotally I would say it's most people) prefer an office to working remotely. So companies that don't offer remote work will limit their hiring pool a bit, but remote-only companies will also limit their hiring pool by turning off people who want to go into an office.

rurp 6y ago
Sure but before the pandemic probably 99% of office jobs were onsite. If 15% of workers prefer remote while only 1% of companies operate that way, being remote will be a competitive advantage for companies that do it for the foreseeable future.
- sanderjd 6y ago
  Agreed, I do think there will be a lot of rebalancing going on. Though I think your numbers are a bit off; this was already a phenomenon pre-pandemic, though I do agree that it will accelerate.