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C++ is better. Rust is a cargo cult language (same with Kotlin, Kotlin especially is a corporate language to sell more IDEs and Google was bribed by JetBraine t

C++ is better. Rust is a cargo cult language (same with Kotlin, Kotlin especially is a corporate language to sell more IDEs and Google was bribed by JetBraine to adopt it). Rust is just a bad attempt at reinventing the wheel.

wffurr 6y ago
Rust is a bad attempt at reinventing C++? That's a unique take. Memory safety is a big deal for writing secure programs, which has been repeatedly shown to be impossible to do at scale in C++. Provably safe parallelism and concurrency is key for performance on multi core devices, also extremely difficult to do safely and correctly in C++. If C++ is the wheel being reinvented, it's not much of a wheel.
howinteresting 6y ago
Rust is a fantastic attempt at reinventing C++. It works really well. I've been writing production code in it for the last few years and it's an utter delight to use. I maybe break out rust-gdb once a year. My code has fewer bugs than ever, thanks to extensive use of the high-quality modeling tools (types and lifetimes) provided by the language. My main project for the last year has had a grand total of one logic bug that was caught after release. It also has an inclusive community: at the last RustConf, half the speakers were nonbinary and/or transgender. I fit both those criteria and feel more welcome in the Rust community than in that of any other language, meaning that I can do my best work in Rust.
- carlhjerpe 6y ago
  Considering way less than 50% of developers are nonbinary/transgender, don't you get the impression that they're then trying to fill quotas rather than picking the best speakers? Not saying they weren't the best, just that either rust is a very unique community or something is "up" with the selection. Just to clarify, I'm asking with good intent.
  - howinteresting 6y ago
    There's a selection effect: people like me experience so much ambient hostility in society that we gravitate towards communities that welcome us and that already have people like us in leadership positions. So the correct metric is not % of all developers as a whole but just the ones involved in the Rust community. The Rust community has many nonbinary and transgender people in it, and speakers are selected from the community. The selection process for RustConf is blind so the talks were picked for their merit: it just so happened that half of the speakers weren't cis. > rust is a very unique community Yes, this is true in my experience.
    - carlhjerpe 6y ago
      I've been thinking about a good answer, but these days it's a fine line to talk about these things. I'm happy the rust community is so open while being widely successful. Might shine some light into the rest of the world. I'm from Sweden,where this kind of hostility probably exists, but I never see it (gay people are very well accepted, trans I'm not as certain, only have a pool of 1 friend so not enough data).
      - howinteresting 6y ago
        I'm not Swedish so I don't know much about what it's like to be a Swedish trans person. One thing I will say is that my general impression from afar is that Europeans are generally a lot more tolerant of the state interfering in personal identity issues than the liberal parts of the US. Iceland used to have a fixed list of approved baby names for example, something unimaginable in the US. The situation was made better in 2019: https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelandic-names-will-no-longer-be-gendered/ https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelandic-names-will-no-l...
      - Rule35 6y ago
        I think the discussion gets a bit blurred around what acceptance means. It varies from acceptance of an adult just being trans, of trans babies, of schools preaching medical transition without parent approval, and of issue of bathroom usage and sex-segregated prisons. Regardless of the political questions presumably Swedes are fairly liberal about someone's personal choices.
throwaway189262 6y ago
No way. Rust is great, trust me. I'm not even going to say why because it would be a huge rant. It improves on C++ in virtually every way. Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better. Every feature you wish C++ had, Rust has it. I agree with you on Kotlin. It's better than Java on paper, but in much the same ways Groovy already was. And the advantages are shrinking in new versions of Java, especially if you use Lombok.
- lenkite 6y ago
  "Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better" How does one perform generic fold expressions in Rust lang ? (Possible in C++ 17 and above) https://foonathan.net/2020/05/fold-tricks/ https://foonathan.net/2020/05/fold-tricks/ https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/fold https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/fold
  - pixel_fcker 6y ago
    Macros baby
    - lenkite 6y ago
      AFAIK, macros are only applicable to a subset of problems. Anyways, I found that variadic generics is a draft RFC: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/376 https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/376
- scoutt 6y ago
  >Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better. IDK. I miss variadic functions (not macros) and being able to do certain simple things without resorting to strange paradigms, like arbitrarily closing an std::fs::File without needing to go out of scope or calling drop. Things like that.
  - 3836293648 6y ago
    How is calling drop any different from calling close?
nl 6y ago
Google was bribed by JetBraine to adopt it It's hard not being sarcastic in reply to this. But no, this did not happen.

wffurr 6y ago

Rust is a bad attempt at reinventing C++? That's a unique take. Memory safety is a big deal for writing secure programs, which has been repeatedly shown to be impossible to do at scale in C++. Provably safe parallelism and concurrency is key for performance on multi core devices, also extremely difficult to do safely and correctly in C++. If C++ is the wheel being reinvented, it's not much of a wheel.

howinteresting 6y ago

Rust is a fantastic attempt at reinventing C++. It works really well. I've been writing production code in it for the last few years and it's an utter delight to use. I maybe break out rust-gdb once a year. My code has fewer bugs than ever, thanks to extensive use of the high-quality modeling tools (types and lifetimes) provided by the language. My main project for the last year has had a grand total of one logic bug that was caught after release. It also has an inclusive community: at the last RustConf, half the speakers were nonbinary and/or transgender. I fit both those criteria and feel more welcome in the Rust community than in that of any other language, meaning that I can do my best work in Rust.

carlhjerpe 6y ago
Considering way less than 50% of developers are nonbinary/transgender, don't you get the impression that they're then trying to fill quotas rather than picking the best speakers? Not saying they weren't the best, just that either rust is a very unique community or something is "up" with the selection. Just to clarify, I'm asking with good intent.
- howinteresting 6y ago
  There's a selection effect: people like me experience so much ambient hostility in society that we gravitate towards communities that welcome us and that already have people like us in leadership positions. So the correct metric is not % of all developers as a whole but just the ones involved in the Rust community. The Rust community has many nonbinary and transgender people in it, and speakers are selected from the community. The selection process for RustConf is blind so the talks were picked for their merit: it just so happened that half of the speakers weren't cis. > rust is a very unique community Yes, this is true in my experience.
  - carlhjerpe 6y ago
    I've been thinking about a good answer, but these days it's a fine line to talk about these things. I'm happy the rust community is so open while being widely successful. Might shine some light into the rest of the world. I'm from Sweden,where this kind of hostility probably exists, but I never see it (gay people are very well accepted, trans I'm not as certain, only have a pool of 1 friend so not enough data).
    - howinteresting 6y ago
      I'm not Swedish so I don't know much about what it's like to be a Swedish trans person. One thing I will say is that my general impression from afar is that Europeans are generally a lot more tolerant of the state interfering in personal identity issues than the liberal parts of the US. Iceland used to have a fixed list of approved baby names for example, something unimaginable in the US. The situation was made better in 2019: https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelandic-names-will-no-longer-be-gendered/ https://www.icelandreview.com/news/icelandic-names-will-no-l...
    - Rule35 6y ago
      I think the discussion gets a bit blurred around what acceptance means. It varies from acceptance of an adult just being trans, of trans babies, of schools preaching medical transition without parent approval, and of issue of bathroom usage and sex-segregated prisons. Regardless of the political questions presumably Swedes are fairly liberal about someone's personal choices.

throwaway189262 6y ago

No way. Rust is great, trust me. I'm not even going to say why because it would be a huge rant. It improves on C++ in virtually every way. Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better. Every feature you wish C++ had, Rust has it. I agree with you on Kotlin. It's better than Java on paper, but in much the same ways Groovy already was. And the advantages are shrinking in new versions of Java, especially if you use Lombok.

lenkite 6y ago
"Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better" How does one perform generic fold expressions in Rust lang ? (Possible in C++ 17 and above) https://foonathan.net/2020/05/fold-tricks/ https://foonathan.net/2020/05/fold-tricks/ https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/fold https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/fold
- pixel_fcker 6y ago
  Macros baby
  - lenkite 6y ago
    AFAIK, macros are only applicable to a subset of problems. Anyways, I found that variadic generics is a draft RFC: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/376 https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/376
scoutt 6y ago
>Every feature you have in C++, Rust does it better. IDK. I miss variadic functions (not macros) and being able to do certain simple things without resorting to strange paradigms, like arbitrarily closing an std::fs::File without needing to go out of scope or calling drop. Things like that.
- 3836293648 6y ago
  How is calling drop any different from calling close?

nl 6y ago

Google was bribed by JetBraine to adopt it It's hard not being sarcastic in reply to this. But no, this did not happen.