5 ms·

I’ve not taken the plunge on any special keyboards. I am afraid of committing to something super custom and losing some of my already low typing speed when swit

I’ve not taken the plunge on any special keyboards. I am afraid of committing to something super custom and losing some of my already low typing speed when switching to use the laptops built in keyboard.

chrisco255 6y ago
Which is why we're all using Qwerty keyboards instead of Dvoraks...Switching costs are too high. This low-impact model in the title promises 120WPM (I'm assuming with time commitment to achieve mastery). But yeah, you won't be able to take a device like that everywhere. It makes me wonder if any WPM threshold is enough to convince people to make the switch from Qwerty.
- jschwartzi 6y ago
  I can type about 70-80 WPM on my qwerty in typing tests. The limiting factor in my work isn't typing speed, it's my ability to form thoughts and to express them to the computer. So switching to a faster keyboard does absolutely nothing for me.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    Indeed. Stenographers regularly hit 200wpm on chorded keyboards, with a record of 375. We haven't adopted that tech en mass because speed isn't the only factor
  - dr_kiszonka 6y ago
    I wonder if there is some sort of ergonomic benchmark for IDEs or keyboard shortcut layouts. What I have in mind is given some representative code sample, how many keystrokes are needed to perform a set of common tasks like duplicate line, reverse the order of function arguments, etc. There could be penalties for uncomfortable shortcuts like CTRL-B on QWERTY.
    - asdff 6y ago
      I definitely think the mac OS cmd based keystrokes are much more ergonomic than the windows ctrl based keystrokes. For windows you have to hit ctrl with your weak pinky, then awkardly stretch your index finger to somewhere on the keyboard. It's an awkard movement that I don't think my hand otherwise ever makes during my life. It seems like a recipe for strain to me, doing something not commonly done by the hand regularly. I think it originally was expected that users would use their other hand to type right ctrl since there wasn't a mouse back then, but these days everyone keeps their right hand hovering the mouse or trackpad rather than hovering over the home row. With cmd based keyboard shortcuts, your hand basically forms the default resting limp hand position, with your thumb on the cmd button, and your index finger lazily and easily finding the other key to complete the shortcut. Your thumb is basically always there anyway due to the spacebar. It's a much more natural movement.
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        Using two hands for key combinations is step one to avoiding RSI. If you need to keep your hands on the mouse (for example, CAD or video editing) then get a keyboard with programmable macro keys, or a separate macro pad. For example, a Kinesis Freestyle Pro, or a Koolertron.
  - egypturnash 6y ago
    In the long run, your limiting factor is how much your favorite keyboard layout fucks up your wrist tendons by making them rub against the inside of the bones of your wrist (the “tunnel” of “carpal tunnel syndrome”).
- LukeShu 6y ago
  > It makes me wonder if any WPM threshold is enough to convince people to make the switch from Qwerty. No. You don't switch for speed. You switch for comfort and to reduce strain. The reason why the 120WPM speed is brought up at all is to (1) demonstrate that the keyboard design isn't totally bunk, and (2) that the person has spent enough time with the keyboard to get to a level of mastery with it that their opinion on the keyboard is coming from a place of knowledge.
- c618b9b695c4 6y ago
  I tried Dvorak for some time and did find it more comfortable. I even got up to a semi-decent typing speed. My big stumbling block was the number of applications that have non-configurable keybinds.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    It helps if you plan to toggle; on X11/Linux I just switch to QWERTY when gaming, but I think Windows can do per-program keyboard layout selection, which would make it really easy.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Given that the leaderboards for typing speed competitions are dominated by qwerty typers, and that I, a qwerty typer, type faster than every single one of my dvorak friends, and that the general pattern of the scholarly work on dvorak is that experimental rigor correlates positively with p-values, I'm inclined to say that the reason for qwerty's continued dominance is not just that people are stuck in their ways. It's absolutely a factor, of course, but another one is that the benefits of dvorak have been greatly exaggerated.
  - hydroxonium 6y ago
    me on dvorak: 110 wpm (10-race average) on typeracer.com If your typing speed is high percentile, odds are you'd be faster than all your friends anyway, regardless of dvorak / qwerty. (E.g. I type faster than every single one of my qwerty friends! ...) Given that <0.1% use dvorak, there's >90% chance you won't see a single dvorak user in a random sample of 100 people. Not hard to see why the leaderboards will be "dominated" by qwerty. Like others have said, dvorak is for comfort, not for speed. Dvorak is MUCH more comfortable than qwerty. Also, Dvorak users almost never complain that they type more slowly than their qwerty days, once they've gotten used to it. Many of us dvorak users also are competent at qwerty in a pinch (80 wpm qwerty here). Cf. http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/ http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/
  - anchpop 6y ago
    I use colemak, and type as fast as I did back when I typed with two fingers. But from people who switched from touch-typing qwerty, I'm told colemak and dvorak are much more comfortable. I don't think anyone should switch because they anticipate better typing speed, but if you type with two fingers, switching can force you to reset your muscle memory and make it easier to learn to touch-type (that's why I switched). If anyone is interested in switching, also check out the Workman layout, which is a slight improvement on Colemak's ergonomics at the cost of messing up some keyboard shortcuts
- starpilot 6y ago
  Keyboard layout doesn't matter for speed. Here's a guy typing 99 wpm with two fingers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNu8WnFFa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNu8WnFFa0 You switch to Dvorak for comfort, not speed.
- elihu 6y ago
  > Which is why we're all using Qwerty keyboards instead of Dvoraks... Whether the switching costs are worth it is an individual choice, and quite a few people have chosen that it's worth it. They're in the minority, but that's fine as long as people are free to use whatever keyboard layout they like.
- api_or_ipa 6y ago
  Everyone has a "premature optimization is the root of all evil" story and I'm no different. I learned Dvorak years ago in university and stuck with it, thinking it would make me a better 'professional' programmer since I could type faster. Oh, how naive I was. Over a decade later, I've made the switch between dvorak and qwerty several times, and it really isn't too hard to switch, after an afternoon using a different layout I'll reach a reasonable WPM. Lately I've stuck to dvorak although I'm still reasonably fluent in Qwerty and I do occasionally go back to qwerty to ensure I'm still somewhat fluent. What really does me in when using another computer is the standard staggered keyboard layout since I've been living on an Ergodox Infinity for over a year now. Once you've grown accustomed to an columnar arranged keyboard, it's incredibly difficult to go back to a staggered layout.
mleonhard 6y ago
If you're worried about RSI, take action now. Don't wait. Don't get a keyboard like the one in the article. Get one that reduces arm twisting and strain on your tendons. Fifteen years ago, I had RSI pain in my wrists. I switched to a split keyboard [0] and the pain mostly went away. After a few years, the aches came back and slowly got worse, especially when using a mouse. Eight years ago, I switched to a tenting keyboard [1] and vertical mouse [2]. Again, the aching and pain mostly went away. Strength training [3] finally solved my RSI. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#Natural_Keyboard_Elite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#... [1] https://shop.goldtouch.com/products/goldtouch-v2-adjustable-comfort-keyboard-pc-and-mac-compatible-usb https://shop.goldtouch.com/products/goldtouch-v2-adjustable-... [2] https://evoluent.com https://evoluent.com [3] https://www.lesmills.com/us/workouts/fitness-classes/bodypump/ https://www.lesmills.com/us/workouts/fitness-classes/bodypum...
pugworthy 6y ago
I built a 40% keyboard a while back somewhat for the fun of it. I can type on it, but honestly it's difficult. Hunt and peck style, sure - speed typing, not yet.
qudat 6y ago
I was worried about this as well but my daily driver is a split ortho 40% keyboard and I can easily switch between it (with multiple layers) and a laptop keyboard. You don’t lose the ability to type on a normal keyboard, you just gain how to type on a 40% split ortho.

chrisco255 6y ago

Which is why we're all using Qwerty keyboards instead of Dvoraks...Switching costs are too high. This low-impact model in the title promises 120WPM (I'm assuming with time commitment to achieve mastery). But yeah, you won't be able to take a device like that everywhere. It makes me wonder if any WPM threshold is enough to convince people to make the switch from Qwerty.

jschwartzi 6y ago
I can type about 70-80 WPM on my qwerty in typing tests. The limiting factor in my work isn't typing speed, it's my ability to form thoughts and to express them to the computer. So switching to a faster keyboard does absolutely nothing for me.
- klyrs 6y ago
  Indeed. Stenographers regularly hit 200wpm on chorded keyboards, with a record of 375. We haven't adopted that tech en mass because speed isn't the only factor
- dr_kiszonka 6y ago
  I wonder if there is some sort of ergonomic benchmark for IDEs or keyboard shortcut layouts. What I have in mind is given some representative code sample, how many keystrokes are needed to perform a set of common tasks like duplicate line, reverse the order of function arguments, etc. There could be penalties for uncomfortable shortcuts like CTRL-B on QWERTY.
  - asdff 6y ago
    I definitely think the mac OS cmd based keystrokes are much more ergonomic than the windows ctrl based keystrokes. For windows you have to hit ctrl with your weak pinky, then awkardly stretch your index finger to somewhere on the keyboard. It's an awkard movement that I don't think my hand otherwise ever makes during my life. It seems like a recipe for strain to me, doing something not commonly done by the hand regularly. I think it originally was expected that users would use their other hand to type right ctrl since there wasn't a mouse back then, but these days everyone keeps their right hand hovering the mouse or trackpad rather than hovering over the home row. With cmd based keyboard shortcuts, your hand basically forms the default resting limp hand position, with your thumb on the cmd button, and your index finger lazily and easily finding the other key to complete the shortcut. Your thumb is basically always there anyway due to the spacebar. It's a much more natural movement.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      Using two hands for key combinations is step one to avoiding RSI. If you need to keep your hands on the mouse (for example, CAD or video editing) then get a keyboard with programmable macro keys, or a separate macro pad. For example, a Kinesis Freestyle Pro, or a Koolertron.
- egypturnash 6y ago
  In the long run, your limiting factor is how much your favorite keyboard layout fucks up your wrist tendons by making them rub against the inside of the bones of your wrist (the “tunnel” of “carpal tunnel syndrome”).
LukeShu 6y ago
> It makes me wonder if any WPM threshold is enough to convince people to make the switch from Qwerty. No. You don't switch for speed. You switch for comfort and to reduce strain. The reason why the 120WPM speed is brought up at all is to (1) demonstrate that the keyboard design isn't totally bunk, and (2) that the person has spent enough time with the keyboard to get to a level of mastery with it that their opinion on the keyboard is coming from a place of knowledge.
c618b9b695c4 6y ago
I tried Dvorak for some time and did find it more comfortable. I even got up to a semi-decent typing speed. My big stumbling block was the number of applications that have non-configurable keybinds.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  It helps if you plan to toggle; on X11/Linux I just switch to QWERTY when gaming, but I think Windows can do per-program keyboard layout selection, which would make it really easy.
mumblemumble 6y ago
Given that the leaderboards for typing speed competitions are dominated by qwerty typers, and that I, a qwerty typer, type faster than every single one of my dvorak friends, and that the general pattern of the scholarly work on dvorak is that experimental rigor correlates positively with p-values, I'm inclined to say that the reason for qwerty's continued dominance is not just that people are stuck in their ways. It's absolutely a factor, of course, but another one is that the benefits of dvorak have been greatly exaggerated.
- hydroxonium 6y ago
  me on dvorak: 110 wpm (10-race average) on typeracer.com If your typing speed is high percentile, odds are you'd be faster than all your friends anyway, regardless of dvorak / qwerty. (E.g. I type faster than every single one of my qwerty friends! ...) Given that <0.1% use dvorak, there's >90% chance you won't see a single dvorak user in a random sample of 100 people. Not hard to see why the leaderboards will be "dominated" by qwerty. Like others have said, dvorak is for comfort, not for speed. Dvorak is MUCH more comfortable than qwerty. Also, Dvorak users almost never complain that they type more slowly than their qwerty days, once they've gotten used to it. Many of us dvorak users also are competent at qwerty in a pinch (80 wpm qwerty here). Cf. http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/ http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/Dvorak/
- anchpop 6y ago
  I use colemak, and type as fast as I did back when I typed with two fingers. But from people who switched from touch-typing qwerty, I'm told colemak and dvorak are much more comfortable. I don't think anyone should switch because they anticipate better typing speed, but if you type with two fingers, switching can force you to reset your muscle memory and make it easier to learn to touch-type (that's why I switched). If anyone is interested in switching, also check out the Workman layout, which is a slight improvement on Colemak's ergonomics at the cost of messing up some keyboard shortcuts
starpilot 6y ago
Keyboard layout doesn't matter for speed. Here's a guy typing 99 wpm with two fingers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNu8WnFFa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNu8WnFFa0 You switch to Dvorak for comfort, not speed.
elihu 6y ago
> Which is why we're all using Qwerty keyboards instead of Dvoraks... Whether the switching costs are worth it is an individual choice, and quite a few people have chosen that it's worth it. They're in the minority, but that's fine as long as people are free to use whatever keyboard layout they like.
api_or_ipa 6y ago
Everyone has a "premature optimization is the root of all evil" story and I'm no different. I learned Dvorak years ago in university and stuck with it, thinking it would make me a better 'professional' programmer since I could type faster. Oh, how naive I was. Over a decade later, I've made the switch between dvorak and qwerty several times, and it really isn't too hard to switch, after an afternoon using a different layout I'll reach a reasonable WPM. Lately I've stuck to dvorak although I'm still reasonably fluent in Qwerty and I do occasionally go back to qwerty to ensure I'm still somewhat fluent. What really does me in when using another computer is the standard staggered keyboard layout since I've been living on an Ergodox Infinity for over a year now. Once you've grown accustomed to an columnar arranged keyboard, it's incredibly difficult to go back to a staggered layout.

mleonhard 6y ago

If you're worried about RSI, take action now. Don't wait. Don't get a keyboard like the one in the article. Get one that reduces arm twisting and strain on your tendons. Fifteen years ago, I had RSI pain in my wrists. I switched to a split keyboard [0] and the pain mostly went away. After a few years, the aches came back and slowly got worse, especially when using a mouse. Eight years ago, I switched to a tenting keyboard [1] and vertical mouse [2]. Again, the aching and pain mostly went away. Strength training [3] finally solved my RSI. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#Natural_Keyboard_Elite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ergonomic_keyboards#... [1] https://shop.goldtouch.com/products/goldtouch-v2-adjustable-comfort-keyboard-pc-and-mac-compatible-usb https://shop.goldtouch.com/products/goldtouch-v2-adjustable-... [2] https://evoluent.com https://evoluent.com [3] https://www.lesmills.com/us/workouts/fitness-classes/bodypump/ https://www.lesmills.com/us/workouts/fitness-classes/bodypum...

pugworthy 6y ago

I built a 40% keyboard a while back somewhat for the fun of it. I can type on it, but honestly it's difficult. Hunt and peck style, sure - speed typing, not yet.

qudat 6y ago

I was worried about this as well but my daily driver is a split ortho 40% keyboard and I can easily switch between it (with multiple layers) and a laptop keyboard. You don’t lose the ability to type on a normal keyboard, you just gain how to type on a 40% split ortho.