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Signal may not own any MobileCoins, but the CEO of MobileCoin said: > MobileCoin has not yet paid Signal anything for integrating MobileCoin. We intend to dona

by hn8788 6y ago

Signal may not own any MobileCoins, but the CEO of MobileCoin said: > MobileCoin has not yet paid Signal anything for integrating MobileCoin. We intend to donate a great deal of money to Signal over the coming years.

Klonoar 6y ago
Yes, I've read that. I find it a stretch to draw that conclusion though, as if it's some back door deal for funding. For all the criticisms of cryptocurrency (and I have many...), I don't particularly see anything on MobileCoin's work that indicates the usual shady cryptocurrency stuff. I'm not sure it belongs in Signal, but I do think this stuff can be evaluated without people starting conspiracy theories.
- freeone3000 6y ago
  It's literally a quid pro quo? What conspiracy theory do you need here?
  - Klonoar 6y ago
    I don't see how it's a quid pro quo for someone like Moxie, with his background, to advise a project for years and then work with them to integrate it given the alignment with regards to privacy initiatives. I find it conspiracy-theory in nature to assume otherwise; I think it could've been handled better from a server source code side but I don't really see why this has to be an assumed bad faith thing.
    - tsimionescu 6y ago
      It's quid pro quo to include an obscure scam coin out of the blue into an entirely unrelated product, with a public promise from the scam club owners to donate their money to your business. The fact the the owner of signal had already been associated with MobileCoin for a long time makes it worse, not better.
      - Klonoar 6y ago
        ...no, the fact that the founder of Signal advised it for years indicates it's not an "obscure scam coin" from out of the blue. If Signal had built this themselves, in house, nobody would bat an eye. You're stretching hard here.
        tsimionescu 6y ago
        Signal including a cryptocoin came completely out of the blue (well, apparently there were rumors, but that doesn't mean it was an expected change). MobileCoin is also deeply suspicious in its mining model, and is not some well known coin.
- hn8788 6y ago
  The CEO said: > I love Signal and I started MobileCoin to help fund their work. I don't see how it's a conspiracy theory that this is a backdoor way of funding Signal when the CEO literally says that MobileCoin was created as a way to fund Signal.
  - Klonoar 6y ago
    Yeah, I don't really see anything particularly wrong with that. I'd be more bothered by it if Signal wasn't a nonprofit. Is it potentially a bad business model? Yeah. Is it necessarily some backdoor funding deal? I dunno, I don't really buy it.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  It's not a conspiracy when it's all out in the open. Calling things you don't like a conspiracy theory to discredit them is a poor form of argument. A bunch of decently well of people decided to do a few handshake deals to make each other a whole bunch of money. That's how most of the world rolls so this is simply par for course.
  - Klonoar 6y ago
    >It's not a conspiracy when it's all out in the open. Calling things you don't like a conspiracy theory to discredit them is a poor form of argument. This statement would work better if that's what I was doing, but I'm not. You (and nobody else) on this thread knows for sure what's going on there, and if Moxie's been advising MobileCoin for years I don't see how it falls under a handshake deal. There is nothing to indicate that he, or Signal, are directly profiting from this, other than some MobileCoin people saying they want to donate to Signal (which is a good thing - I'm really not bothered by that particular point).
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    If the owners of MobileCoin own 85% of existing coins which at current rates is valued at $14 billion, you actually expect they're not in this to liquidate their coin for that $14 billion if they can snooker people into using it?
ImprovedSilence 6y ago
In my view there are worse ways to make money from a chat app. Like selling all your users data. Ir worse yet just selling out to FB. At least a crypto scheme can maybe be the cash cow that helps them keep true to the privacy aspect....
- freeone3000 6y ago
  I'm really tired of every single company going through some abusive scam or data harvesting scheme to avoid simply charging me money.
  - godelski 6y ago
    Isn't this because most users have decided that charging money is a death sentence? Hell, there's a HN article on this like every month.
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      Someone should always take the time to point out to such threads that WhatsApp was running very profitable based on that model without eveb trying. Also feel free to read anything by the Basecamp guys (yep, the guys behind Rails). It won't get you or the investors (another) yacht, but there exist a number of companies that delight their customers and change history far more than many attempted unicorns.
  - xorcist 6y ago
    Yet somehow the Wikipedia project has managed to stay afloat during all these years... I'm pretty sure more than one WikiCoin has been pitched too.
- ohyeshedid 6y ago
  Until something goes awry in that crypto scheme and some intelligence agency decides to use that as leverage to undermine the security of Signal. Moxie, on his own, may be resistant to pressure, but when there's a secondary company involved that might be pressured by threats of losing several million dollars... This commingling of business interests means there's more angles of approach, and much more risk exposure.

by hn8788 6y ago

Klonoar 6y ago

Yes, I've read that. I find it a stretch to draw that conclusion though, as if it's some back door deal for funding. For all the criticisms of cryptocurrency (and I have many...), I don't particularly see anything on MobileCoin's work that indicates the usual shady cryptocurrency stuff. I'm not sure it belongs in Signal, but I do think this stuff can be evaluated without people starting conspiracy theories.

freeone3000 6y ago
It's literally a quid pro quo? What conspiracy theory do you need here?
- Klonoar 6y ago
  I don't see how it's a quid pro quo for someone like Moxie, with his background, to advise a project for years and then work with them to integrate it given the alignment with regards to privacy initiatives. I find it conspiracy-theory in nature to assume otherwise; I think it could've been handled better from a server source code side but I don't really see why this has to be an assumed bad faith thing.
  - tsimionescu 6y ago
    It's quid pro quo to include an obscure scam coin out of the blue into an entirely unrelated product, with a public promise from the scam club owners to donate their money to your business. The fact the the owner of signal had already been associated with MobileCoin for a long time makes it worse, not better.
    - Klonoar 6y ago
      ...no, the fact that the founder of Signal advised it for years indicates it's not an "obscure scam coin" from out of the blue. If Signal had built this themselves, in house, nobody would bat an eye. You're stretching hard here.
      - tsimionescu 6y ago
        Signal including a cryptocoin came completely out of the blue (well, apparently there were rumors, but that doesn't mean it was an expected change). MobileCoin is also deeply suspicious in its mining model, and is not some well known coin.
hn8788 6y ago
The CEO said: > I love Signal and I started MobileCoin to help fund their work. I don't see how it's a conspiracy theory that this is a backdoor way of funding Signal when the CEO literally says that MobileCoin was created as a way to fund Signal.
- Klonoar 6y ago
  Yeah, I don't really see anything particularly wrong with that. I'd be more bothered by it if Signal wasn't a nonprofit. Is it potentially a bad business model? Yeah. Is it necessarily some backdoor funding deal? I dunno, I don't really buy it.
marcinzm 6y ago
It's not a conspiracy when it's all out in the open. Calling things you don't like a conspiracy theory to discredit them is a poor form of argument. A bunch of decently well of people decided to do a few handshake deals to make each other a whole bunch of money. That's how most of the world rolls so this is simply par for course.
- Klonoar 6y ago
  >It's not a conspiracy when it's all out in the open. Calling things you don't like a conspiracy theory to discredit them is a poor form of argument. This statement would work better if that's what I was doing, but I'm not. You (and nobody else) on this thread knows for sure what's going on there, and if Moxie's been advising MobileCoin for years I don't see how it falls under a handshake deal. There is nothing to indicate that he, or Signal, are directly profiting from this, other than some MobileCoin people saying they want to donate to Signal (which is a good thing - I'm really not bothered by that particular point).
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  If the owners of MobileCoin own 85% of existing coins which at current rates is valued at $14 billion, you actually expect they're not in this to liquidate their coin for that $14 billion if they can snooker people into using it?

ImprovedSilence 6y ago

In my view there are worse ways to make money from a chat app. Like selling all your users data. Ir worse yet just selling out to FB. At least a crypto scheme can maybe be the cash cow that helps them keep true to the privacy aspect....

freeone3000 6y ago
I'm really tired of every single company going through some abusive scam or data harvesting scheme to avoid simply charging me money.
- godelski 6y ago
  Isn't this because most users have decided that charging money is a death sentence? Hell, there's a HN article on this like every month.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    Someone should always take the time to point out to such threads that WhatsApp was running very profitable based on that model without eveb trying. Also feel free to read anything by the Basecamp guys (yep, the guys behind Rails). It won't get you or the investors (another) yacht, but there exist a number of companies that delight their customers and change history far more than many attempted unicorns.
- xorcist 6y ago
  Yet somehow the Wikipedia project has managed to stay afloat during all these years... I'm pretty sure more than one WikiCoin has been pitched too.
ohyeshedid 6y ago
Until something goes awry in that crypto scheme and some intelligence agency decides to use that as leverage to undermine the security of Signal. Moxie, on his own, may be resistant to pressure, but when there's a secondary company involved that might be pressured by threats of losing several million dollars... This commingling of business interests means there's more angles of approach, and much more risk exposure.