6 ms·

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Jeff Dean is going to leave as well. Tick tock.

sp332 6y ago
As impressive as Dean's technical skills are, there's a point where Google would be better off without him than without all the people who decided not to work for Google because of him.
- ironrabbit 6y ago
  Are there lots of people who don't work at Google because of him? My impression is that he'd very well regarded in the tech community.
  - ketzo 6y ago
    Well, at the very minimum, the recent firings/resignations certainly seem... correlated to him.
    - strangeattractr 6y ago
      I mean it's a big leap to say that. Insinuating that he's a troublesome character to work with when most people say the opposite is quite strange. Even if it is related to his personality, sometimes people just don't get along in a workplace. The choice between Dean and Gebru for Google is a fairly easy one in this situation.
    - ryan93 6y ago
      If you have something to accuse him of just go ahead and say it. Regardless the recent firings and resignations were for "AI ethics" researchers who were hired for political reasons in the first place. Real engineers wont care.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Well, at the very minimum, the recent firings/resignations certainly seem... correlated to him. You mean: directly attributed to him and Megan Kacholia.
  - sp332 6y ago
    I was only able to find a few who mentioned it specifically, https://twitter.com/luke_stark/status/1372934350011043840 https://twitter.com/luke_stark/status/1372934350011043840, https://twitter.com/KwasiAMensah/status/1377259862762123265 https://twitter.com/KwasiAMensah/status/1377259862762123265 and possibly https://twitter.com/ackleow/status/1354874327796232195 https://twitter.com/ackleow/status/1354874327796232195 & https://twitter.com/pigpen7877/status/1377542008093302787 https://twitter.com/pigpen7877/status/1377542008093302787 But it's not just me who figures that people will be less inclined to want to work there including this Google employee https://twitter.com/vickitardif/status/1334499064457650176 https://twitter.com/vickitardif/status/1334499064457650176 and this person who co-authored a paper with Timnit https://twitter.com/emilymbender/status/1370463074692472834 https://twitter.com/emilymbender/status/1370463074692472834 Edit: oh and that time their sponsorship of the FAccT was cancelled. https://venturebeat.com/2021/03/02/ai-ethics-research-conference-suspends-google-sponsorship/ https://venturebeat.com/2021/03/02/ai-ethics-research-confer...
  - rurban 6y ago
    Not anymore. Also Bengio was demoted over the Gebru support, most likely by Jeff. I also would want to have Gebru on my team, but the handling of HR issues is key here.
- prepend 6y ago
  My impression is that many more people join Google to work with Dean than don’t join wanting to avoid him. Hard to measure though and be certain.
dontreact 6y ago
What makes you say this? I'd be willing to take the opposite side of that bet.
- throwaway29303 6y ago
  If you follow the news in general there's been a concerted effort to remove white men from positions of power (with very few exceptions). And Google has been - for a while now - one of the poster children for this agenda. Sundar Pichai, for instance, I believe, was chosen not just because of his browser endeavours' success, his background etc, but because he could help break into the indian market (remember that these tech companies have been eager to get into and dominate the Next Billion Users market [India, China, et al]). It was actually a smart move, IMHO. Mark Zuckerberg is going to be a tough one to get rid of because he completely controls Facebook. But the media have been doing everything they can to get at him (privacy issues, etc). I mean, it's not that the media aren't right (about some of the issues I'm aware of), but it's the best play they can do at the moment. But this Facebook, or rather, social media and media fight is a whole 'nother and different story despite sharing some variables with this topic.
  - dontreact 6y ago
    I don't see this concerted agenda to remove white men from positions of power. If you stand back and think to yourself "if we had a perfectly meritocratic world, what percentage of business leaders would be white men?", I don't think the answer is 100% (as was the case at the turn of the century). Today the answer is about 70%. So yeah, we are trending away from 100%. And within certain groups of white men, this has created a lot of anxiety about losing their privileged position in society. Some other evidence that the shift away from 100% white men is not some concerted agenda, but rather people who deserve it being put into positions of power. Companies with female leadership tend to outperform the market. https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/2362/companies-with-women-in-the-boardroom-perform-better https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/2362/companies-with-wome... You're claiming that Sundar was chosen for his skin color with no evidence other than speculation. Chrome is one of the most important products for Google. Who else was passed up for his job? How are you so sure?
deleted 6y ago
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- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

As impressive as Dean's technical skills are, there's a point where Google would be better off without him than without all the people who decided not to work for Google because of him.

ironrabbit 6y ago
Are there lots of people who don't work at Google because of him? My impression is that he'd very well regarded in the tech community.
- ketzo 6y ago
  Well, at the very minimum, the recent firings/resignations certainly seem... correlated to him.
  - strangeattractr 6y ago
    I mean it's a big leap to say that. Insinuating that he's a troublesome character to work with when most people say the opposite is quite strange. Even if it is related to his personality, sometimes people just don't get along in a workplace. The choice between Dean and Gebru for Google is a fairly easy one in this situation.
  - ryan93 6y ago
    If you have something to accuse him of just go ahead and say it. Regardless the recent firings and resignations were for "AI ethics" researchers who were hired for political reasons in the first place. Real engineers wont care.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Well, at the very minimum, the recent firings/resignations certainly seem... correlated to him. You mean: directly attributed to him and Megan Kacholia.
- sp332 6y ago
  I was only able to find a few who mentioned it specifically, https://twitter.com/luke_stark/status/1372934350011043840 https://twitter.com/luke_stark/status/1372934350011043840, https://twitter.com/KwasiAMensah/status/1377259862762123265 https://twitter.com/KwasiAMensah/status/1377259862762123265 and possibly https://twitter.com/ackleow/status/1354874327796232195 https://twitter.com/ackleow/status/1354874327796232195 & https://twitter.com/pigpen7877/status/1377542008093302787 https://twitter.com/pigpen7877/status/1377542008093302787 But it's not just me who figures that people will be less inclined to want to work there including this Google employee https://twitter.com/vickitardif/status/1334499064457650176 https://twitter.com/vickitardif/status/1334499064457650176 and this person who co-authored a paper with Timnit https://twitter.com/emilymbender/status/1370463074692472834 https://twitter.com/emilymbender/status/1370463074692472834 Edit: oh and that time their sponsorship of the FAccT was cancelled. https://venturebeat.com/2021/03/02/ai-ethics-research-conference-suspends-google-sponsorship/ https://venturebeat.com/2021/03/02/ai-ethics-research-confer...
- rurban 6y ago
  Not anymore. Also Bengio was demoted over the Gebru support, most likely by Jeff. I also would want to have Gebru on my team, but the handling of HR issues is key here.
prepend 6y ago
My impression is that many more people join Google to work with Dean than don’t join wanting to avoid him. Hard to measure though and be certain.

dontreact 6y ago

What makes you say this? I'd be willing to take the opposite side of that bet.

throwaway29303 6y ago
If you follow the news in general there's been a concerted effort to remove white men from positions of power (with very few exceptions). And Google has been - for a while now - one of the poster children for this agenda. Sundar Pichai, for instance, I believe, was chosen not just because of his browser endeavours' success, his background etc, but because he could help break into the indian market (remember that these tech companies have been eager to get into and dominate the Next Billion Users market [India, China, et al]). It was actually a smart move, IMHO. Mark Zuckerberg is going to be a tough one to get rid of because he completely controls Facebook. But the media have been doing everything they can to get at him (privacy issues, etc). I mean, it's not that the media aren't right (about some of the issues I'm aware of), but it's the best play they can do at the moment. But this Facebook, or rather, social media and media fight is a whole 'nother and different story despite sharing some variables with this topic.
- dontreact 6y ago
  I don't see this concerted agenda to remove white men from positions of power. If you stand back and think to yourself "if we had a perfectly meritocratic world, what percentage of business leaders would be white men?", I don't think the answer is 100% (as was the case at the turn of the century). Today the answer is about 70%. So yeah, we are trending away from 100%. And within certain groups of white men, this has created a lot of anxiety about losing their privileged position in society. Some other evidence that the shift away from 100% white men is not some concerted agenda, but rather people who deserve it being put into positions of power. Companies with female leadership tend to outperform the market. https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/2362/companies-with-women-in-the-boardroom-perform-better https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/2362/companies-with-wome... You're claiming that Sundar was chosen for his skin color with no evidence other than speculation. Chrome is one of the most important products for Google. Who else was passed up for his job? How are you so sure?

deleted 6y ago

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deleted 6y ago
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