4 ms·

> Having a Muslim racially profiled, intimidated and then put on a no-fly list for no reason is not a good look for that agency. We have had a steady stream of

> Having a Muslim racially profiled, intimidated and then put on a no-fly list for no reason is not a good look for that agency. We have had a steady stream of stories like this for almost 20 years now. Nothing substantial has changed. I don’t think the FBI is worried about PR around this at this point.

tyingq 6y ago
This could be substantially different for them. The guy is a citizen, works for an "All American" type company (Ford), etc. And the ACLU picked up the case.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Even if they win, who will enforce it? The FBI/DOJ are supposed to be the ones investigating color of law and law enforcement misconduct.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    This seems interesting in that area. He can sue individual FBI agents for monetary damages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/10/supreme-court-says-muslims-placed-on-no-fly-list-can-sue-fbi-agents.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/10/supreme-court-says-muslims-p...
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Well, the ACLU has already filed lawsuits about citizens on the no fly list and won... 8 years ago. Seems like not much has changed https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/federal-court-sides-aclu-no-fly-list-lawsuit https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/federal-court-sides-aclu... So why is this time “substantially different”?
  - tyingq 6y ago
    Oh, yeah...appears Abe Mashal had a pretty good backstory too...also a citizen, and happened to be a former US Marine: https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-profiling/im-former-marine-who-was-no-fly-list-4-years-and-i/ https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-p... I hadn't seen his story before, the ones I had seen were residents. Supposedly, there aren't very many citizens on the list: "According to leaked documents published by The Intercept, there were more than 47,000 people on the No Fly List as of August 2013, including 800 Americans." [1] Chebli's story does include the additional wrinkle of the recruitment, harassment, threats, etc, and thus first amendment violation petitions for relief. [1] https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status?redirect=national-security/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officia...
- BeetleB 6y ago
  > The guy is a citizen, works for an "All American" type company (Ford), etc. How is that substantially different? In April 2005, 70000 people were on the list. I bet most fit this description of yours.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    It's secret, so nobody knows for sure, but my guess is that most of the people on the list are not citizens, probably most are not residents either. "According to leaked documents published by The Intercept, there were more than 47,000 people on the No Fly List as of August 2013, including 800 Americans." [1] The recruitment and harassment beforehand is also somewhat unique. [1] https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status?redirect=national-security/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officia...
  - dghlsakjg 6y ago
    This makes a good "example case". If you are going to take something to the Supreme Court you want a Plaintiff who looks like a boy-scout to the press. You want to make sure that they can't retroactively dig up a reason for the guy to be on the no-fly list. It needs to be clear that the only reason that he is on that list is that he said "no, thank you" to the FBI
worik 6y ago
"20 years now" You mistyped. 200 years

tyingq 6y ago

This could be substantially different for them. The guy is a citizen, works for an "All American" type company (Ford), etc. And the ACLU picked up the case.

giantg2 6y ago
Even if they win, who will enforce it? The FBI/DOJ are supposed to be the ones investigating color of law and law enforcement misconduct.
- tyingq 6y ago
  This seems interesting in that area. He can sue individual FBI agents for monetary damages: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/10/supreme-court-says-muslims-placed-on-no-fly-list-can-sue-fbi-agents.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/10/supreme-court-says-muslims-p...
cortesoft 6y ago
Well, the ACLU has already filed lawsuits about citizens on the no fly list and won... 8 years ago. Seems like not much has changed https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/federal-court-sides-aclu-no-fly-list-lawsuit https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/federal-court-sides-aclu... So why is this time “substantially different”?
- tyingq 6y ago
  Oh, yeah...appears Abe Mashal had a pretty good backstory too...also a citizen, and happened to be a former US Marine: https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-profiling/im-former-marine-who-was-no-fly-list-4-years-and-i/ https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/discriminatory-p... I hadn't seen his story before, the ones I had seen were residents. Supposedly, there aren't very many citizens on the list: "According to leaked documents published by The Intercept, there were more than 47,000 people on the No Fly List as of August 2013, including 800 Americans." [1] Chebli's story does include the additional wrinkle of the recruitment, harassment, threats, etc, and thus first amendment violation petitions for relief. [1] https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status?redirect=national-security/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officia...
BeetleB 6y ago
> The guy is a citizen, works for an "All American" type company (Ford), etc. How is that substantially different? In April 2005, 70000 people were on the list. I bet most fit this description of yours.
- tyingq 6y ago
  It's secret, so nobody knows for sure, but my guess is that most of the people on the list are not citizens, probably most are not residents either. "According to leaked documents published by The Intercept, there were more than 47,000 people on the No Fly List as of August 2013, including 800 Americans." [1] The recruitment and harassment beforehand is also somewhat unique. [1] https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status?redirect=national-security/first-government-officially-tells-aclu-clients-their-no-fly-list-status https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/first-government-officia...
- dghlsakjg 6y ago
  This makes a good "example case". If you are going to take something to the Supreme Court you want a Plaintiff who looks like a boy-scout to the press. You want to make sure that they can't retroactively dig up a reason for the guy to be on the no-fly list. It needs to be clear that the only reason that he is on that list is that he said "no, thank you" to the FBI

worik 6y ago

"20 years now" You mistyped. 200 years