4 ms·

How many other people are stuck in this way abroad?

tyingq 6y ago
It's not a terrific workaround, but I suppose you could fly into Canada or Mexico and then ground transport across the border.
- giantg2 6y ago
  Or a boat. I think there might be an issue with these too. It's titled a no-fly list, but I think they have additional restrictions too. I'm not sure if they deny entry based on it too.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    He's a citizen, so denied entry would be pretty curious.
    - giantg2 6y ago
      It's a subset of the larger TSC database. I don't know if they treat citizens on that list differently, or if he's even on the more restrictive part of that list.
      - dghlsakjg 6y ago
        There's plenty of federal case law that makes it pretty much a right for citizens to enter the US. "...the right to return to the United States is inherent in American citizenship.” Fikre v. FBI. Which was about this exact issue. They can put you on the no fly list, but if you get to the Border, there is an absolute right for citizens to enter, even without a passport. Of course, the courts might not get around to enforcing your right to enter for a few months or years, and it might cost you a fortune in lawyer fees
        giantg2 6y ago
        But is there any case law if they're in the more restrictive parts of the TCS database? Haven't citizens been held at the boarder for not unlocking their phones, even though they aren't on a list?
        dghlsakjg 6y ago
        Holding someone at the border is not the same as denying them entry from the country sadly. I think its a rather gaping hole in the constitution that has been ruthlessly exploited. Warrantless searches at the border were allowed to be exempt from the 4th amendment since customs agents needed to be able to inspect goods coming in to apply tariffs appropriately and prevent contraband. Snooping through people's personal papers and phones is pretty far outside of that mandate if you ask me. The takeaway is that if you have the time, you are free to tell them that you won't be providing a password. They are free to hold you for a 'reasonable' amount of time (reasonable could mean many hours). And they are also legally allowed to seize your phone and allow you entry to the country.
        giantg2 6y ago
        I thought for at least a while (2004ish) they were actually denying entry unless they could search devices. Maybe they were just confiscating them. It was a long time ago.
- gandalfian 6y ago
  I wondered that but reading Wikipedia it's more of a no travel thing despite the name. Mexico won't let you through and Canada has its own no entry list that includes the USA one.
- chefkoch 6y ago
  I'm not sure any reputable airline will fly you anywhere even outside of the US.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    I don't think the system allows you to bump against the US No Fly list if the origin and/or destination isn't the US.

It's not a terrific workaround, but I suppose you could fly into Canada or Mexico and then ground transport across the border.

giantg2 6y ago
Or a boat. I think there might be an issue with these too. It's titled a no-fly list, but I think they have additional restrictions too. I'm not sure if they deny entry based on it too.
- tyingq 6y ago
  He's a citizen, so denied entry would be pretty curious.
  - giantg2 6y ago
    It's a subset of the larger TSC database. I don't know if they treat citizens on that list differently, or if he's even on the more restrictive part of that list.
    - dghlsakjg 6y ago
      There's plenty of federal case law that makes it pretty much a right for citizens to enter the US. "...the right to return to the United States is inherent in American citizenship.” Fikre v. FBI. Which was about this exact issue. They can put you on the no fly list, but if you get to the Border, there is an absolute right for citizens to enter, even without a passport. Of course, the courts might not get around to enforcing your right to enter for a few months or years, and it might cost you a fortune in lawyer fees
      - giantg2 6y ago
        But is there any case law if they're in the more restrictive parts of the TCS database? Haven't citizens been held at the boarder for not unlocking their phones, even though they aren't on a list?
        dghlsakjg 6y ago
        Holding someone at the border is not the same as denying them entry from the country sadly. I think its a rather gaping hole in the constitution that has been ruthlessly exploited. Warrantless searches at the border were allowed to be exempt from the 4th amendment since customs agents needed to be able to inspect goods coming in to apply tariffs appropriately and prevent contraband. Snooping through people's personal papers and phones is pretty far outside of that mandate if you ask me. The takeaway is that if you have the time, you are free to tell them that you won't be providing a password. They are free to hold you for a 'reasonable' amount of time (reasonable could mean many hours). And they are also legally allowed to seize your phone and allow you entry to the country.
        giantg2 6y ago
        I thought for at least a while (2004ish) they were actually denying entry unless they could search devices. Maybe they were just confiscating them. It was a long time ago.
gandalfian 6y ago
I wondered that but reading Wikipedia it's more of a no travel thing despite the name. Mexico won't let you through and Canada has its own no entry list that includes the USA one.
chefkoch 6y ago
I'm not sure any reputable airline will fly you anywhere even outside of the US.
- tyingq 6y ago
  I don't think the system allows you to bump against the US No Fly list if the origin and/or destination isn't the US.