5 ms·

What's a "jelly bean" processor? Trying to search for that just gets a bunch of hits about Android 4.1.

by buu700 6y ago

madsushi 6y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376874 > [1] Jelly Bean chips are those that are made in batches of 1 - 10 million with a set of functions that are fairly specific to their application.
- foobarian 6y ago
  Is that the chip-on-board packaging like described here: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9137/what-kind-of-components-are-black-blobs-on-a-pcb https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9137/what-ki... ?
ChuckMcM 6y ago
Sometimes referred to as "applications specific processor" (ASP) or "System on chip" (SoC). These are the bulk of semiconductor sales these days as they have replaced all of the miscellaneous gate logic on devices with a single programmable block that has a bunch of built in peripherals. Think Atmel AtMega parts, there are trillions of these in various roles. When you think of something like a 555 timer[1] that is now more cost effectively and capably replaced with an 8 pin micro-processor you can get an idea of the shift. While these are rarely built on the "leading edge" process node, when a process node takes over for high margin chips, the previous node gets used for lower margin chips, which effectively does a shrink on their die increasing their cost (most of these chips seem to keep their performance specs fairly constant, preferring cost reduction over performance improvement.) Anyway, the zillions of these chips in lots of different "flavors" are colloquially referred to as "jelly bean" chips.
dragontamer 6y ago
http://sparks.gogo.co.nz/assets/_site_/downloads/smd-discrete-jellybeans.pdf http://sparks.gogo.co.nz/assets/_site_/downloads/smd-discret... > Jellybean is a common term for components that you keep in your parts inventory for when your project just needs “a transistor” or “a diode” or “a mosfet” ----------- For many hobbyists, a Raspberry Pi or Arduino is a good example of a Jellybean. You buy 10x Raspberry Pis and stuff your drawer full of them, because they're cheap enough to do most tasks. You don't really know what you're going to use all 10x Rasp. Pi for, but you know you'll find a use of it a few weeks from now. --------- At least, in my Comp. Engineering brain, I think N2222 transistors or 3904-transistors, or the 741 Op-amp. There are better op-amps and better transistors for any particular job. But I chose these parts because they're familiar, comfortable, cheap and well understood by a wide variety of engineers. Well, not the 741 OpAmp anymore anyway. 741 was a jellybean back in the 12V days. Today I think 5V compatibility has become the standard voltage (because of USB). So 5V op-amps are a more important "jellybean".
- klodolph 6y ago
  I don't know how old you are, but the 741 was obsolete in the 1980s. It sticks around in EE textbooks because it's such an easy way to demonstrate problems with op-amps... high input current, low gain-bandwidth product, low slew rate, etc. I think your jellybean op-amps would more likely be TL072, LM358, or NE5532.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    Old, beaten up textbooks from the corner of my neighborhood library was talking 741 back in the 2000s, when I was in high school and started dabbling around with electricity more seriously. Maybe it was fully obsolete by that point, but high school + neighborhood libraries aren't exactly filled with up-to-date textbooks or the latest and greatest. I remember that Radio Shack was still selling kits with 741 in them, as well as breadboards and common components... 12V wall-warts and the like. Online shopping was beginning to get popular, but I was still a mallrat who picked up components and dug through old Radio Shack manuals into 2005 or 2006. It was the ability to walk around, and see those component shelves sitting there in Radio Shack that got me curious about the hobby and start researching it. I do wonder how modern children are supposed to get interested into hobbies now that malls are less popular (and electronic shops like Radio Shack are basically disappeared). ------------ I don't remember what we used in college. I knew that I was more selective and understood the kinds of problems various OpAmps had back then. Also you're not really rich enough to invest into a private stockpile of chips, and instead just use whatever the labs are stocked with in college. LM358 is the jellybean that I keep in my drawer today. If you're curious. Old habits die hard though, I still think 741 as the jellybean even though it really is obsolete today.
    - ChuckMcM 6y ago
      I've got a tube each of 358's and 1458's (dual version) in my parts supplies. But my microwave stuff is finding them lacking.
  - bavell 6y ago
    +1 for LM358

What's a "jelly bean" processor? Trying to search for that just gets a bunch of hits about Android 4.1.

by buu700 6y ago

What's a "jelly bean" processor? Trying to search for that just gets a bunch of hits about Android 4.1.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376874 > [1] Jelly Bean chips are those that are made in batches of 1 - 10 million with a set of functions that are fairly specific to their application.

foobarian 6y ago
Is that the chip-on-board packaging like described here: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9137/what-kind-of-components-are-black-blobs-on-a-pcb https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/9137/what-ki... ?

ChuckMcM 6y ago

Sometimes referred to as "applications specific processor" (ASP) or "System on chip" (SoC). These are the bulk of semiconductor sales these days as they have replaced all of the miscellaneous gate logic on devices with a single programmable block that has a bunch of built in peripherals. Think Atmel AtMega parts, there are trillions of these in various roles. When you think of something like a 555 timer[1] that is now more cost effectively and capably replaced with an 8 pin micro-processor you can get an idea of the shift. While these are rarely built on the "leading edge" process node, when a process node takes over for high margin chips, the previous node gets used for lower margin chips, which effectively does a shrink on their die increasing their cost (most of these chips seem to keep their performance specs fairly constant, preferring cost reduction over performance improvement.) Anyway, the zillions of these chips in lots of different "flavors" are colloquially referred to as "jelly bean" chips.

dragontamer 6y ago

http://sparks.gogo.co.nz/assets/_site_/downloads/smd-discrete-jellybeans.pdf http://sparks.gogo.co.nz/assets/_site_/downloads/smd-discret... > Jellybean is a common term for components that you keep in your parts inventory for when your project just needs “a transistor” or “a diode” or “a mosfet” ----------- For many hobbyists, a Raspberry Pi or Arduino is a good example of a Jellybean. You buy 10x Raspberry Pis and stuff your drawer full of them, because they're cheap enough to do most tasks. You don't really know what you're going to use all 10x Rasp. Pi for, but you know you'll find a use of it a few weeks from now. --------- At least, in my Comp. Engineering brain, I think N2222 transistors or 3904-transistors, or the 741 Op-amp. There are better op-amps and better transistors for any particular job. But I chose these parts because they're familiar, comfortable, cheap and well understood by a wide variety of engineers. Well, not the 741 OpAmp anymore anyway. 741 was a jellybean back in the 12V days. Today I think 5V compatibility has become the standard voltage (because of USB). So 5V op-amps are a more important "jellybean".

klodolph 6y ago
I don't know how old you are, but the 741 was obsolete in the 1980s. It sticks around in EE textbooks because it's such an easy way to demonstrate problems with op-amps... high input current, low gain-bandwidth product, low slew rate, etc. I think your jellybean op-amps would more likely be TL072, LM358, or NE5532.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  Old, beaten up textbooks from the corner of my neighborhood library was talking 741 back in the 2000s, when I was in high school and started dabbling around with electricity more seriously. Maybe it was fully obsolete by that point, but high school + neighborhood libraries aren't exactly filled with up-to-date textbooks or the latest and greatest. I remember that Radio Shack was still selling kits with 741 in them, as well as breadboards and common components... 12V wall-warts and the like. Online shopping was beginning to get popular, but I was still a mallrat who picked up components and dug through old Radio Shack manuals into 2005 or 2006. It was the ability to walk around, and see those component shelves sitting there in Radio Shack that got me curious about the hobby and start researching it. I do wonder how modern children are supposed to get interested into hobbies now that malls are less popular (and electronic shops like Radio Shack are basically disappeared). ------------ I don't remember what we used in college. I knew that I was more selective and understood the kinds of problems various OpAmps had back then. Also you're not really rich enough to invest into a private stockpile of chips, and instead just use whatever the labs are stocked with in college. LM358 is the jellybean that I keep in my drawer today. If you're curious. Old habits die hard though, I still think 741 as the jellybean even though it really is obsolete today.
  - ChuckMcM 6y ago
    I've got a tube each of 358's and 1458's (dual version) in my parts supplies. But my microwave stuff is finding them lacking.
- bavell 6y ago
  +1 for LM358